Is your school a rugby factory or a rugby family?

Nice comment from Anton T on 18 January 2019:

In Amerika was daar na die College Football finaal tussen Alabama en Clemson ‘n interesante gesprek. Dit het gegaan oor Alabama se football program wat soos ‘n fabriek is en Clemson sin wat meer soos ‘n familie is. As jy na die “fabriek” toe gaan het jy ‘n baie goeie kans om professioneel te speel, maar daar is nie iets soos lojaliteit nie. As hulle iemand beter van ‘n ander plek kan kry vat hulle hom. Clemson probeer meer sy eie spelers ontwikkel, maar lewer minder professionele spelers. Die afgelope 4 jaar het hulle albei 53 gewen gewen en 4 verloor, en altwee was 2 keer die algehele kampioene.

Nou is my vraag wat is beter? loyalitiet… professionalisme? En wat is jou skool?

In America, there was an interesting conversation during the College Football final between Alabama and Clemson. It was about Alabama’s football programme that is like a factory and Clemson’s which is more like a family.

If you go to the “factory” you have a very good chance of advancing to become a professional in the NFL but they have no loyalty. If the “factory” can get someone better in a position from another place, they’ll take him.

The “family” is trying to develop more of his own players but delivers fewer less professional players.

Over the past 4 College Football seasons, Clemson has won 53 and lost 4. Both Alabama and Clemson were the overall champions twice during this period.

Now my question is what’s better? Loyalty … professionalism? And what is your school?

131 Comments

  1. In Amerika was daar na die College Football finaal tussen Alabama en Clemson ‘n interesante gesprek. Dit het gegaan oor Alabama se football program wat soos ‘n fabriek is en Clemson sin wat meer soos ‘n familie is. As jy na die “fabriek” toe gaan het jy ‘n baie goeie kans om professioneel te speel, maar daar is nie iets soos lojaliteit nie. As hulle iemand beter van ‘n ander plek kan kry vat hulle hom. Clemson probeer meer sy eie spelers ontwikkel, maar lewer minder professionele spelers. Die afgelope 4 jaar het hulle albei 53 gewen gewen en 4 verloor, en altwee was 2 keer die algehele kampioene.

    Nou is my vraag wat is beter? loyalitiet… professionalisme? En wat is jou skool?

    Veral Boishaai pa is julle ‘n fabriek of ‘n familie?

    ReplyReply
  2. @AntonT: Clemson is pretty serious about their football too!!

    Last year, Clemson had a star QB (Barrett), who was in his 3rd year, but also a fantastic new QB out of school (Lawrence). The coach (Swinney) played both of them for the first 4 matches. At the end of the 4th match he told Barrett that Lawrence would be his starter for the remainder of the season. Swinney received a lot of praise because if he had told Barrett after 5 games, he would not have been able to transfer to another University without sitting out the whole of the 2019 season – i.e. he looked after his player’s best interest. So, Barrett decided to transfer and thus not be able to play for Clemson for the remainder of 2018, but is eligible to play for Missouri (I think) in 2019.

    Almost the same thing happened in ‘Bama, with the youngster Tagovailoa replacing Jalen Hurts; however, Hurts decided to stay at Alabama and the decision saved ‘Bama as Tagovailoa was having a shocker in the SEC Championship game v Georgia due to an injury, so Hurts replaced him in Q3 and won the game for ‘Bama.

    So, maybe the family spirit at ‘Bama is not as poor as you think?

    ReplyReply
  3. @Vleis: Ek probeer nie se dat “familie” beter is as “Fabriek” nie. Dis net twee verskillende maniere van goed doen. Alabama is die afgelope 4 jaar deur 8 hulp afrigters. Meeste van hul spelers bly net vir drie jaar omdat hulle moet voor hulle in die draft gaan terwyl die graad kursese by hulle 4 jaar is.

    Hulle gaan Alabama toe om professioneel te kan speel. Dis ‘n fabriek. Wat ok is…

    Dis net jy moet besef wat jy is.

    Oakdale en Boland is vir my meer “familie”
    HJS en Garsfontein is meer “Fabriek”

    Ek is persoonlik meer ‘n fabriek ou… Wat kan die skool, werk …kontakte vir my doen. Inplaas van wat ek vir hulle kan doen.

    ReplyReply
  4. @AntonT: met jou punt van orde gaan die werwingspunt gesprek redelik tot ruste kom. n Fabriekman verstaan nie lekker die wyse van denke van n familieman nie en n familieman ook nie die wyse van n fabriekman nie. Hang net af waar jy die gemaklikste voel. Ek dink net n fabriekman man harder praat as n familieman, want dit raas die meeste van die tyd in n fabriek.

    ReplyReply
  5. @AntonT: I agree that Dabo Swinney has created a great family and winning culture at Clemson, but my example re Jalen Hurts shows that Alabama might also have a great family culture. What I’m trying to say is that it is not as black and white as you make out, but rather, shades of grey.

    For example, Deshaun Watson was the best player to pay for Clemson in the last 20 years (maybe Lawrence will be better) and he went into the NFL draft after the minimum of 3 years. Likewise, although Garsfontein recruit from far and wide, it seems to me (from the outside admittedly) that they have a very good family spirit.

    I do agree that Oakdale and BL have something magical, because to do as well as they have done for so long with such small numbers is incredible.

    However,…maybe I’m just biased, being a ‘Bama fan.

    P.S. on a different note, I thnk that it would be great if more of our rugby coaches and players watched a lot more NFL, as there is a lot that we can learn from that game. The rugby players overseas watch a lot more NFL that the guys in SA.

    ReplyReply
  6. @Vleis: Sorry @Vleis,I think they can learn a lot more from our code.What can we learn from them? Defence and tackle? Attacking space?Atack from structure play,inovation?I think it’s the other way around.I think people like Hansen and White will add a lot whereby their coaches can help maybe in the condition,mental toughness department.Watching the odd game I can’t but help thinking what a player like Fourie and Habana not to mention all the All Blacks would have done given the chance.

    ReplyReply
  7. @Vleis: What I mean is the Yanks have the ability to make you believe something is more complicated and difficult than it seems.Take 9 ball pool,I pot more balls than my opponent but still loose! 8-O What’s up with that? They’ll tell you baseball is more difficult than cricket.A batter in cricket can expect a full toss and about a triljoen different pitch deliveries whereby in baseball you either expect a curve or a speed ball always coming full 8-O How difficult will this game be for someone like AB.All Habana treis he scored receiving the ball behind the advantage line with sometimes many defenders to beat.Imagine receiving the ball 30 meters up field infront of the advantage line with 0,1 defenders to beat 10 meters from the try line :lol: :lol: I know it’s not as simple,but imo,NFL overated.

    ReplyReply
  8. @Grizzly: totaal over rated, hulle speel in 10 sekonde bursts en nie 80min aan mekaar nie vreeslik groot sterk en vinnig…. Vir 10-20 sekondes op n slag, ek dink hulle cardio kondiesie is baie swakker as n top rugby speler sin…maar wat profesionalisme betref myle en myle voor rugby

    ReplyReply
  9. @Grizzly: teen die tyd dat hulle defence span fase nr16 moet verdedig is hulle flou… Ek dink nie hulle sal een volle helfte van rugby game kan speel nie…

    ReplyReply
  10. @Smallies: Vat 2 spanne,die Cowboys en die Bulle.Gee hulle n maand om rugby te leer en die Bulle n maand om gridiron te leer.Speel Dan 1 rugby en 1 gridiron game,gooi punte saam on Wenner te kies,my gut se Bulle wen :lol: Sien hoe doen hulle in rugby, scrums,tackle sonder hul armour :mrgreen:

    ReplyReply
  11. @Grizzly: ek kyk nigals bietjie gridiron so dan en wan, wat hulle baie baie goed in is, is om die defence te shift, hulle is altyd opgeline teenoor oponente en hulle tackle hel hard omdat hulle met die helmet lead, nie baie veilig vir die spelers nie maar baie effektief, dis dan ook hoekom daar so baie konkussie is onder hulle, party van hulle afrigters begin nou rugby style tackles in bring omdat dit nie so hard op die kop en nek is nie

    ReplyReply
  12. @Grizzly: Howzit Grizzly. I think you misunderstand me. I’m not saying that NFL is better or worse than rugby – personally, I prefer rugby..

    Also, there is no debate that the fitness level of a rugby player is light years ahead of an NFL player due to the way the NFL game is structured – i.e. an NFL player will only participate in some 30 minutes of action over 4 hours.

    That said, bear in mind that a top college coach (let alone NFL) earns over R100m per annum, so the level of professionalism is way ahead of rugby. We could certainly benefit from some cross-pollination of training techniques, defence strategies, use of data, unlocking of defence strategies, psychology, video analysis…to name just a few areas.

    ReplyReply
  13. @Vleis: Rugby in South Africa as a whole has a lot to learn about the professional side of the game.
    There is no doubt our talent has extended endless potential if correctly managed and looking after.
    This serves from identifying talent, provinsial support, contracts, performance, post rugby career etc.
    Its not just NFL, the English premier soccer clubs is also a great example for their systems, programs and professional approach to the game AND players.

    ReplyReply
  14. @Vleis: @Skopgraaf243: I agree completely.The question is why.Is it our government interference? People get appointed because they connected?Is is just a trend across SA whereby people put personal agendas before the bigger picture?Surely in the 80’s ,90’s there were administrator’s with the caliber of Craven,Luyt, Kirkpatrick,Eloff,ext….I see the Bulls went all out and appointed a former CEO of blue chip company.The big difference imo is the fact that SARU prohibited personal ownership whereby all the NFL and English Premier clubs are owned by individuals.Almost all of them is billioners with deep pockets and run the franchises like a business with the focus on the supporters.Why SARU can’t see that is behond me.

    ReplyReply
  15. @Vleis: I agree with you that cross-pollination and idea sharing will add a lot of value. I also believe that some of our rugby structures do have a heck of a lot of information and manage it well. There is however a tremendous block in sharing and bringing that knowledge to the larger rugby community. Some management structures believe their knowledge and information is their only power. Especialy the political animals and those that are not innovative & cannot adapt fast. This is where NZ is extremely good, despite the fierce on-field rivalry. We need to change many people and mindsets. Great leadership required.

    ReplyReply
  16. In NFL the head coach is usually the main decision-maker. Occasionally a head coach will defer to his experienced QB.

    I was thinking that perhaps the rugby head coach at pro level should also be responsible for deciding what option to take on kickable penalties in situations where a team member didn’t opt for a quick tap and go. This seems like the biggest on-field decision a captain has to make.

    ReplyReply
  17. @beet: even these decisions are dictated from the sideline, remember Rassies lights, Dwayne Vermeulen’s headset experience, many more eg.
    Captains roll has become limited and is still vital roll in motivation, ensure gameplan and mediate officials if need be.

    ReplyReply
  18. @Grizzly: @BrotherBear: @Skopgraaf243: I believe that SA produces the best talent in the world at junior level, so it’s frustrating that things decline thereafter. As you say, our rugby structures need a complete overhaul – NZ is way ahead of us in that regard. I also agree that we are a bit too insular and thus are less open to new ideas, cross-pollination, sharing, etc. Unfortunately, I think that we also have more corruption in the system than our main rivals. As BB says, great leadership is required.

    @beet: In the NFL, the offensive plays (for example, but the same applies to defence, special teams) are called by a combination of the head coach, the offensive coordinator (“OC”) and the quarterback. The head coach is more like a company CEO – i.e. he’s responsible for the whole structure, the strategy of the team’s offence for the season, etc. The OC will mostly plan the finer details of the offensive strategy and he calls all the plays during the match. The QB may change a specific play on the field based on his gut feel or, more often, based on how the defence has lined up, etc. The frequency of the latter will partly depend of the stature of the QB and the OC.

    ReplyReply
  19. Persoonlik voel ek dat meeste skole oor die algemeen in Suid Afrika die familiebenadering volg. Party het welliswaar groot families en moet plek maak vir ‘n groot verskeidenheid. Skole het ook nie meer ‘n baie groot sê oor wie tot die familie toegelaat gaan word nie. Daar is huidiglik nog geleentheid om werwing te doen en beurse aan te bied, maar vir hoe lank dit gaan duur is ‘n ope vraag.

    ReplyReply
  20. @Cappie: Bois is 880 seuns en is en sal altyd n familie wees.

    Grey 1200 +
    Roos 1200+
    Affis 1200+
    Kloof 1200+

    ReplyReply
  21. My school is both

    But some schools in particular one in Paarl and one in Bloemfontein take the family thing too far
    They are more like La Familia ala Cosa Nostra esta la Tony Soprano conta Gomorra a la Ciro di Marzio

    ReplyReply
  22. @Grizzly: With professionalism comes greed. Funny you mention Luyt because he was right up there where greed is concerned. The problem is not political interference. Funny enough I think Varsity Cup has the potential to solve the question of this topic. Schools could potentially be schools again where kids realize the bigger picture. That there is life after high school and being in some built up 1st XV of a prominent school matter less than having marks good enough to end up in a high profile varsity and playing rugby.

    Patrick Lambie’s retirement should be a turning point. He’s only 28.

    Draft in varsity, don’t draft in high school.

    To slightly disagree with you, the problem is not politicians. It’s people who think a good rugby school gives you a better chance at rugby. Instead of thinking a good school gives you a better chance in life. Lambie is not short of opportunities in life. But some other 28 year old who suffered the same tragic strike on their rugby career, came from nothing, and will probably die one day with nothing. They may have been at a great rugby school, but they are nothing without rugby on their cv

    ReplyReply
  23. @Playa: your “greed” statement is so true. Remember that runs hand in hand with politics. Although I believe the politics associated with affirmative action is more damaging than good, the politics I refer to is more general. It is the need to keep oneself in power, with little regard to other’s wellbeing or needs. The really sneaky politicians do provide opportunities to others, if those “others” give something back (or keep them in power). So it is also a greed thing. Also a self-image thing. Their perception of power drives their self-worth. Eish, where are the days that everyone could get a fair chance? Or, was that ever the case?

    ReplyReply
  24. @Andre T’tjie:
    In die eerste plek……..daar is nooit gerugte oor Garsies nie…..alles is die waarheid
    Tweedens het Garsfontein vanjaar n masjienspan, onoorwonne is ononderhandelbaar vir hulle
    Julle 1 000 dae rekord is in gevaar

    ReplyReply
  25. @Speartackle: @Andre T’tjie: @AndreT,@The Terminator,@Jurie Els,@A river runs true it,@Buck Rodgers,@Heidi,@Cheers!,@Indiana Jones,@Die Stander bende,@Grensvegter,@Rooi kaart, sorry as ek een vergeet het :lol: :lol: :lol: ,Daai rumours oor Garsies is oordrewe,at most top 20…

    ReplyReply
  26. @Grizzly: Lekker Grizzly
    Ek’s oppad Kingsmead toe
    Gaan kyk of daai Paki’s weer die kak uit ons kan slaan
    Hoop net nie Amla bat weer deur die beurt nie

    Het daar nog nooit n Garsie erens gekom in krieket nie, ek sien kort kort is daar n Affie wat iewers span maak

    ReplyReply
  27. Ek is nou moeg stront gepraat
    Nou besig om my Cokes en naartjies vol Richelieu te spuit
    Taxify is gebel, Kingsmead hier kom ons
    Kyk uit vir my op
    Sal daar op die 3de man grens sit

    ReplyReply
  28. @Playa: I think more boardroom than party politics.Think SARU(Goverment) is afraid to loose control.If they had faith in their abilities that wouldn’t be the case.Look at premiership, French sides which is owned by private individuals.The clubs and the union’s work as one.Imagine a private individual with deep pockets could buy EP with the stadium.Today there’s no more loyalty for the badge,players go where the money is.He could buy the cream of the crop in SA and in no time all problems is forgotten.

    Money is what’s going to solve much of the problems in SA.You can’t compete against something that’s 15,17 times stronger than you(currency).If a Euro Billioner buys something in SA,can pay the players accordingly,built the brand not being dependable on gate revenue,then fewer players will leave.The whole chain reaction will filter true our structures and rugby.

    I’m more of an Ellof man but if greed gets the cups and results im leaning more towards Luyt then :lol: :lol:

    ReplyReply
  29. I know thayt I am totally way off the topic, but I do not know where else I can brag a little with the Brackenfell old boys recent performances. Cornal Skosan made his debut in 2017 for the Springboks and Cheslin Kolbie had an impressive debut for the Boks at the end of last year. Then also Quan Eymann was voted as the best WP u/19 player for 2018. Finally ! Dane Paterson is currently playing for the Proteas against Pakistan. I guess not many schools (if any) can boast about their old boys representing their country in 2 of the major sporting codes, at the same time.

    ReplyReply
  30. @Kattes-Strofes: Congrats,truly awesome!I think not to long ago Affies had AB,Faf and Jaques Ruddolf with Fourie, Pierre and Wynand Olivier on the rugby side.Faf and RG still playing now.

    ReplyReply
  31. @Grizzly: Thanks, Brombeertjie! I am sure that there are quite a few schools that have achieved this feat, like Grey Bloem etc. However! I still think this is a rarity, escpecially for one of the newby, and unknown schools. Brakkies can really be proud of their old boys’ achievements.

    ReplyReply
  32. @Kattes-Strofes: Always a pleasure.Agree with Stiaan van Zyl,very soft on the eye as a batsman with lots of time to play his strokes.Forched to bat out of position which was unfair to him.Hope the powers to be give him another chance.

    ReplyReply
  33. Talking famous old boys, I read a social media screenshot in which a known professor on his way to a school to give a speech asked for the names of 3 well-known old boys of the school to add into his speech and was given the following 3 names:
    Brett Kebble
    Glenn Agliotti
    Lolly Jackson

    ReplyReply
  34. Menlo old boy Rassie v/d Dussen winning it for SA tonight with Phehlukwayo. Also in the team another Menlo old boy Heinrich Klaasen.
    Theunis de Bruyn SA test player also a Menlo old boy.

    ReplyReply
  35. @Kattes-Strofes: I think a couple of years back Affies had a springbok captain ,Fourie du preez and proteas captain,Abie de villiers or faf du plessis in same year.

    ReplyReply
  36. @beet: Ha- Ha !! Jip Beet ! The answer is not wrong. Although their fame is not really something to brag about.

    Also! Nice to read of the number of so-called lesser known sporting schools, that are producing quality sportsmen.

    Although I am not a fan of the sporting transformation/ quota story, it would seem that this have forced the various selection panels, to cast their nets wider, compared to the recent past.

    ReplyReply
  37. @beet: Ha- Ha !! Jip Beet ! The answer is not wrong. Although their fame is not really something to brag about.

    Also! Nice to read of the number of so-called lesser known sporting schools, that are producing quality sportsmen.

    Although I am not a fan of the sporting transformation/ quota story, it would seem that this have forced the various selection panels, to cast their nets wider, compared to the recent past.@Wondermaar: @beet:

    ReplyReply
  38. @Wondermaar: Sjoe ! Dit is n besonderse prestasie ! Baie geluk ook aan Menlo met hul Krieket stêrre. Die Menlo wat ek ken, was altyd bekend vir hul uitstekende atlete. Nou presteer hulle ook in rugby en krieket .

    ReplyReply
  39. Dit is verblydend om uitskietskole buite die gewones se prestasies te erken – knap Brakkies.

    Wat krieket betref : Louis Koen (nie die rugbyspeler nie) en Justin Ontong (Gimmies) het internasionale krieket gespeel. Daar was oor die jare baie goeie krieketspelers in die Paarl. Ongelukkig vasgeloop teen die “old school tie”. Een van die bestes was Salie Nackerdien wat ongelukkig in die verkeerde tyd gespeel het. Sou ‘n lang en roemryke internasionale loopbaan gehad het.

    ReplyReply
  40. @Andre T’tjie: Seker Monnas,of Potch Volkies,niemand het Vir Volkies in die 80’s gewen nie.Menlo krieket maar so,so.In ’17 net,net vir Cornwall gewen om relegation vry te spring.Soos met die rugby,hulle en Affies egter altyd by Titan keurders en slaan die vals kitaar daar ook.

    ReplyReply
  41. @Skopgraaf243: Don’t get confused,I’m not telling jokes now, stating facts.The joke was last season when Menlo produce 15 players to the Bulls A and B teams.Some of them on merit wouldn’t make Garsies second team.Players like Juandre Scheepers and Kallie Calits from Garsies not good enough for C team.Thats comical.Same with cricket but this not the platform.

    ReplyReply
  42. Die Garsfontein manne moet ook altyd Menlo in hulle argumente in bring … die jaloesie darem!!

    2 X T 20 Nasionale Kampioene
    Was al Noordvaal Kampioene
    Wenners van eerste Noord/Suid T20
    2018 FINAL Ranking Menlo 11 Garsfontein 33
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    ReplyReply
  43. @AbsolutMenlo: Jy ken my beter.Om jou die feite oor krieket te gee sal maande vat.Wie se ranking gee jy weer? Garsies NV champs,dis so goed Soos Garsies word bo Monnas gerank met die rugby.Die krieket debate is n Lang ene,soos Ek se nie die platform die nie.As ek jou sien gee Ek jou my kant en Kyk of ek jou kan oortuig.Die Topic is baandjies vir Boeties…Jy weet Ek soek die beste ou daar op meriete…dis die debate.

    ReplyReply
  44. @AbsolutMenlo: Goed,julle wen,eks moeg vir stry.Al Menlo se Bulle en Coke spelers van ’18 het spanne op meriete gemaak.Kan ons nou terugkeer na die gekerm oor werwing asb….

    ReplyReply
  45. rede dat bulle so met craven week jaar op jaar op jaar op jaar sleg uit die bus val wonder soms was hulle ooit op die bus seker bekerrugby se skuld

    ReplyReply
  46. 2014 het Waterkloof n openingskolwer, Janneman Malan gehad, kan nie glo dat hy nog nie vir Proteas speel

    ReplyReply
  47. @Speartackle: Sal lankal die blou waters aan gepak het.Hys besig on uit tyd te hardloop maar bly seker oor lee beloftes.Verstaan dis die Eerste keer dat 3 broers,hy en sy 2 in n eersterangse wedstryd al 3 hondertalle aan geteken het.Twee in een span en een in die ander span.Slaan die bal geweldig hard…Kuiper gekrys met Klusener…

    ReplyReply
  48. Jy speel net met jouself vir die fun
    enige iets anders speel jy om te wen

    ReplyReply
  49. @Andre T’tjie: Ek stem,ons moet groot genoeg wees om te erken beker rugby is n pot….Op n ander noot,ek verstaan die afslaer het nog steeds nie sy kommisie gekry nie omdat SACS en Bois nie ooreen kan kom wie het die veiling gewen nie…

    ReplyReply
  50. @Grizzly: sover ek weet baklei hulle oor n speler van gapsfontein wat nie kan besluit wie se delayed option die beste is tussen bois en sacs nie

    ReplyReply
  51. @Andre T’tjie: ….Maar kan ons asb oor werwing praat…nou al gedink eks op n ander platform…Garsies werf…issi,is…issi, hulle stel aan…hulle gee beurse,issi…hulle werf…issi hulle head hunt,issi,is…hulle gee geleenthede,issi,is…maar net vir bevoorregte seuns…issi,is…as jy goed kan rugby speel is jy bevoorreg…issi, dis n dom oppinie,is…issi…is…jy wen!Nee jy wen…issi jy wen…is ek wen,issi,is….

    ReplyReply
  52. @Grizzly: jammer ek doen nie redaksie vir bloubul skole sepie nie!
    Ek is slegs toeskouer in die sirkus.
    Garsfontein is goeie skool, ek sê maar net

    ReplyReply
  53. Ek weet van twee skole wat hulle eerste en tweede spanne in een liga kon inskryf, Monnas #realwitbulle, en Grey Kollege van Bloem.
    Was daar meer?

    ReplyReply
  54. @Andre T’tjie: het jy gesien die Bulle het Sharks 10, April gekoop, wat n kat in die sak!, dit het GEEN bydrae tot hierdie jaar se aanslag, en WEEREENS is dit ‘n seisoen vir blou-bul ondersteuners om teleurstelling

    ReplyReply
  55. Anyone else watching the Superbowl tonight?

    NFL Game Pass paid, app downloaded on iPad and Samsung tablet, alarm set.

    Busy re-reading Bill Walsh’s book, have Mike Lombardi’s Gridiron Genius lined up next.

    Maybe 10 minutes worth of action in 4 hours, but it stays the greatest spectacle on earth.

    Go Pats!

    ReplyReply

Leave a Reply