Is former Bok captain Andre Vos barking up the wrong tree with this post of his on Twitter?
The Bok team that lost 57-0 to New Zealand, a record defeat which has caused some supporters to point a nasty finger at what’s happening in our schoolboy rugby.
| # | Name | School | Sch Honours | Birth Year | Matric Year | Years since Matric |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Tendai Mtawarira | Peterhouse | – | 1985 | 2002 | 15 |
| 2 | Malcolm Marx | KES | SA | 1994 | 2012 | 5 |
| 3 | Ruan Dreyer | Monument | CW | 1990 | 2008 | 9 |
| 4 | Eben Etzebeth | Tygerberg | SA | 1991 | 2009 | 8 |
| 5 | Franco Mostert | Brits | – | 1990 | 2008 | 9 |
| 6 | Siya Kolisi | Grey HS | SA | 1991 | 2009 | 8 |
| 7 | Jean-Luc du Preez | Kearsney | SA | 1995 | 2013 | 4 |
| 8 | Uzair Cassiem | Strand | – | 1990 | 2008 | 9 |
| 9 | Francois Hougaard | Paul Roos | SA | 1988 | 2005 | 12 |
| 10 | Elton Jantjies | Florida | SA | 1990 | 2008 | 9 |
| 11 | Courtnall Skosan | Brackenfell | – | 1991 | 2009 | 8 |
| 12 | Jan Serfontein | Grey College | SA | 1993 | 2011 | 6 |
| 13 | Jesse Kriel | Maritzburg Coll | SA | 1994 | 2012 | 5 |
| 14 | Raymond Rhule | Louis Botha | CW | 1992 | 2010 | 7 |
| 15 | Andries Coetzee | HTS Middelburg | CW | 1990 | 2008 | 9 |
| 16 | Bongi Mbonambi | St Alban’s | SA | 1991 | 2009 | 8 |
| 17 | Steven Kitshoff | Paul Roos | SA | 1992 | 2010 | 7 |
| 18 | Trevor Nyakane | Ben Vorster | SA | 1989 | 2007 | 10 |
| 19 | Lodewyk de Jager | Hugenote | – | 1992 | 2010 | 7 |
| 20 | Pieter Steph du Toit | Swartland | SA | 1992 | 2010 | 7 |
| 21 | Rudy Paige | Bastion | SA | 1989 | 2007 | 10 |
| 22 | Handre Pollard | Paarl Gim | SA | 1994 | 2012 | 5 |
| 23 | Damian de Allende | Milnerton | – | 1991 | 2009 | 8 |
@Grizzly: Sorry,the combined score exceeds 60 points.I know it didn’t happend this past weekend,NZ only managed 57 points!
@McCulleys Workshop: You didn’t get the score lines in those days as you get them today.Hardly a test is played taday where the combined score doesn’t exceed 60 points.Not in those days.Another myth about defencive patterns ext.I recon with that in mind Mr Gerber would not mind playing today…
@Riempies: @Grizzly: If you are talking Boks, there’s no point in testing the NZ back three (outside of weather conditions) they going to put you under big pressure. In SBR it has some merit. Re the Gerber comment, I’m not so sure, he wouldn’t be as physically imposing as he was, and defensive patterns have changed drastically as have the rules re LF breaking away from scrums etc.
@Riempies: Baie,baie min mense verstaan die art van TACTICAL kicking.Toe ek 10 gespeel het in my jong dae kon ek na 5 min in die game vir jou se hoeveel en hoe ek die res van die game sou skop.My eerste bal wat ek gekry het,het ek op gesit vir 15.Natuurlik het ek gekyk hoe hanteer hy die situasie.Maar ek het meer gekyk wat doen sy vleuls,sy nr 8,sy senters ens.Lynstane met n valk oog dop gehou,domineer ons hulle in gooie ens?Sou Naas en Derick so geskop het sonder Adolf en Victor?Niks in rugby iriteer my soos n doellose skop,ek glo vir die voorspelers ook!
@Grizzly: Sommer Springbokke ook!! Praat nou van die geskoppery!!!!!!!
@Grizzly: my seun hulle het elke maaandag n 2 ure defence oefening gehad,wessel se redenasie ook is dat jy dalk 2min van die game die bal in jou hande het,wat doen jy die res van die tyd,tackle en clean
@Rainier: Kan ek net die volgende se.Jou statement sonder die bal is seker die waarste ding wat ek al hier gelees het.Ek glo vas daarin le die verskil op die oomblik,selfs op aanval.Onthou die speletjie”running red rovers” wat ons as kinders gespeel het tot vervelens toe?Jyt driee gedruk sonder die bal en die ou in die middel het leer tackle!Gaan kyk na Danie Gerber op You tube.Hy het hom in die beste moontlike possisie geplaas voor hy die bal ontvang het,en altyd op gevolg na hy gepass het.Gaan kyk weer sy drie teen Kavaliers op loftus hoe hy vir Carel pass en dan saam gaan en scan,scan,scan terwyl Carel die bal het.Ek is van die opinie dat hy in vandag se rugby met soveel meer fases en turnovers,gebroke spel ens baie meer destructive sou wees.Dis nie potte en pillars se skuld nie,NZ speel ook so,dit alles gaan oor execution en selfvertroue.Ons het die skills.
@Hanswors: Mike,Ranier,Sewes,Rugbyman en baie ander maak goeie punte.n Baie goeie topic om te lees met damm goeie argumente.Ek het n opinie maar sal hom later post.Wat Saru kan doen intussen is om laerskole weer te verbied om buite hul kwartgebied te skop.
There are a lot of generalisations. What Vos says may be happening at some schools, but not at SBR matches I watch. People scoff at 7s skills, but I believe we should spend more time in preparing our players (from number 1 – 23) through 7s skills post- or pre-season.
Interesting reading about Ripper Rugby in NZ. My grandson, +- 3 years old, is in his second season of Little Scrummers in the UK. All skills based.
There are a lot of generalisations. What Vos says may be happening at some schools, but most of the SBR matches I
@Smallies: all respect to you,my kids played against JS and DSP and they both were very big schoolboys and the pair used their power and strength most of the times to break the line
Rugbyman: Hierdie ope brief aan Mnr Vos is spot on.
Ek hou by my punt dat skole rugby – en ek sluit nie Cravenweek en Steve Biko week en al die ander weke en provinsiale spanne in nie – die suiwerste vorm van rugby is om te kyk.
@Rugbyman: Ek stem. Die Bulle se rugby se agteruitgang word gekoppel aan Heyneke se weggaan, maar ek dink die verlies van Paul Anthony en Nico Serfontein by die jonger spanne het net so ‘n groot rol gespeel.
@Rugbyman: Jy slaan di spyker op di kop!!
Ai meneer Vos… ek dink u hoor die klok lui maar het geen idee waar die bel hang nie…
Laerskole se skill levels is definitief laer ja, maar ons probleem lê nie by sogenaamde “pods” en crasballs nie! Daars baie dieper liggende probleme!
Kom ons vergeet gou van cravenweek… Ek dink al die top hoërskole se spanne is puik afgerig! Wat na skool gebeur is egter ‘n ander cup of tea… baie (meeste) vd provinsies maak gebruik van oud spelers om sommer dadelik te begin coach met min of geen coaching ervaring! Hierin lê die probleem… ‘n goeie speler maak nie noodwendig ‘n goeie afrigter nie! Grootste deel van coaching is man management! Ek het al soveel keer gesien hoe spelers na skool in patterns of play ingeforseer word wat uiteindelik hulle skills afstomp…
Meneer Vos, kyk u hoegenaamd skolerugby? Was u al by Wildeklawer? Het u onlangs gesien hoe die top skole spanne speel? Was u al by skole se oefeninge? Ons sit ure en nog ure se werk in skills! Natuurlik is daar ‘n raamwerk waarvolgens enige span speel, selfs die all blacks het ‘n gameplan en maak gebruik van pods en crashballs… selfs die all blacks skop! Ek dink nie u is enigsins in ‘n ingeligte posisie om sulke kommentaar te lewer nie!
Ons ander issue na skool en selfs op skool is ons spelers se werksetiek! Ouboet kry ‘n kontrak en dink dan hy het geariveer… hy werk nie noodwendig meer so hard nie! Die all blacks se werksetiek is next level! Hulle workrate op die veld is unreal en hulle attention to detail om die klein dingetjies reg te doen is die kultuur waarna ons moet streef! Hulle ingesteltheid is nie om talent te prys nie, maar wel harde werk te prys!
Laastens speel ons manne met ‘n fear of failure… ons is bang ons verloor… daarom waag ons nie en vat elke keer die veilige opsie! Hierdie gesprek het ek al baie met profesionele afrigters gehad… meeste van ons SA afrigters wat profesioneel afrig speel uiters konserwatief! Die rede is eenvoudig: As jy verloor is jy gone… niemand wil luister na 3-jaar planne nie, almal soek onmiddelike sukses! Daarom verkies die manne om liefs lelik te wen as om mooi te verloor…
Ek le nou net en dink ons het vandag nie goeie skrummies nie en al het n Joost of Divan vandag gespeel (en dis die probleem met hougie)so hulle in n patroon in gedruk word vier balle links en dan regs almal weet dit hulle lees die spel want die boek se so en siedaar in jou moer dan maak die loskakel die call of n voorspeler of hy die bal kry natuurlik gaan hy die maklike balle vra en die res laat crach.
Ek weet soms speel ek nog met n hout raket maar as die losvoorspeler nie by die balle kan kom nie en erder in n pod in die agterlyn staan hoort hy nie daar nie want waneer rus hy en waneer speel hy die patroon?
Ek stem in n saam met Vos.My oudste seun gebore in 1998 het in sy gr 7 jaar vir die luiperds gespeel hier het ons vir die eerste keer met stand offs en pillars te doen gekry, sy later skool jare het hy te doen gekry dat spelers wat uit possiesie kies word om n groot useless flank met n kleiner beweeglik slot aan te vul so is n klein stut want soms sukkel jy om groot stutte te kry op skool vlak met n grooter slot vervang No6 en 7 het gaan senter speel omdat hulle sommer daar die bal kan fetch en so kan ek aan gaan so daar is merriete aan wat hy se ek dink egter almal het begin agter kom dat dit nie werk nie. Die groot probleem bly dat almal GROOT spelers verkies of hulle nou vaardighede het of nie,Skole werf in GR7 op hoe groot die seun is ,hy hardloop paaie deur die klein manne tot gr10 dan word almal ewe groot en dan kom vaardighede in en hy raak useless so moet asb nie net sommer alle kritiek afmaak nie vat die goeie daar uit dit kan net baat die skuld le nie net by die skole nie die unies en ek het al my misnoee met hulle uit gespreek skryf skole voor.
O ja en skole spanne hardloop week in en week uit game plan kom saterdag is die manne onfiks kan nie by hou en as die game plan nie werk nie en dan is hulle in hulle moer.Speler moet geleer word om op hulle voete te dink en dis waar ware talent in kom ek dink dis die veskil tussen NZ en die res van die wereld.DIE BAL IS NIE ROND NIE!!!
Almal vermy die elephant in the room hierso van Vos af tot by die laaste post hier ,en dit is seker maar omdat ons bang is dat n seker label om ons nekke gehang sal word indien ons dit aanspreek..
Jammer Mnr Vos. U praat totale onsin. Daar is uitstekende afrigters op skolevlak. Sommige onderwysers.
Het iemand die skole in 1995 blameer toe die Wereldbeker teen die einste All Blacks gewen is?
Wat ons geliefde sport doodmaak is die talryke aasvoèls wat by die bestuur van rugby betrokke geraak het. Tesame daarmee toenemende nepotisme. Baantjies vir windgat boeties.
En Kattes is reg oor die opblaas van sekere spelers se profiele op te n jong ouderdom.
Die Bokke se vernedering laas Saterdag was n dolk in die hart. Ek het grootgeword in die era van Mannetjies Roux en Piet Visagie en Morne ens ens. Is hulle ooit so verneder? Was die skole ook toe swak?
Nee Mnr Vos, vra liewers wat Rhule in n Springboktrui soek. Of vra hoe jy jou beste speler op n bepaalde dag afhaal van die veld.( Pieter- Steph) teen die Wallabies.
Vra vir AC hoe D’Allende nog saamgesleep is. Of vra hom of hy dink Hougie is nog reg vir enige toets.
Vra hom ook of Lood regtigwaar toetsgehalte is.
En se hom sommer om skaam te voel oor die vertrapping van n trotse verlede.
Maar asseblief los ons skole uit.
@MikeSt: I have read the articles and I agree that it should be coached from a young age. I seldom see coaches spend 50% of their practice times coaching defense and tackling, yet in most games you will play without the ball for half the time.
My sister’s boy played /13a for a strong Pta primary school at prop – he was prohibited from picking up and running with ball, or receiving the ball as a ball carrier. WTF!!!! So there certainly is coaches that coaches pods and patterns only.
However I believe the gap is very small at /18 level, it becomes more noticeable at /20 level and at senior level the AB’s are out of sight.
@Rainier: Those were certainly 2 outstanding events in the game.
The use of the boot in so many cases caught us totally off guard and has us in stitches most of the time.
Now and after you maybe had the time to read the extract and articles ask the question Where should this be developed?
PLEASE ALL READ THIS ARTICLE………….
https://jonathanwynn.wordpress.com/2016/03/26/why-is-new-zealand-so-good-at-rugby/
For me the difference between the AB and Bok approach to the game can be summed up in the execution of 2 tries on Saturday. With the Milner-Skudder try Beauden Barrett threw a backflip as the final pass for MS to score, and in the Scott Barrett try MS threw an offload with a Bok draped all over him as a final pass.
Both passes were bold and accurate. Mackenzie also threw a flat cutout pass to 11 of about 20 meters. These pieces of skill surpassed what the Boks could deliver in 80 minutes.
It was not only the execution, but the awareness and confidence to execute. The last two is the big difference.
@MikeSt: Provide players with a one-stop service and guaranteed contract if he graduates after 3 years. Cuts out the need for agents etc..Can provide to the global market as well!
@BoishaaiPa: Have been down that route up here just to get doors slammed on you by the structure
@MikeSt: Will be looking for some investors..
@BoishaaiPa: Would be a lovely idea even though i think it will be hi-jacked by the power hungry, autocratic behaviour in our structures as then control would be out of the hands of recruiters and SARU.
@BoishaaiPa: Agreed.
The blueprint in AB rugby runs right through the system. Interesting article below from 2011 already.
Extracts from an article I have read.
STARTING EARLY
Rugby grabs Kiwi kids young. Once it has a hold, it’s not allowed to let go. Buck Anderson, former All Black, rugby teacher and coach, now heads the New Zealand Rugby Football Union’s heavily funded community programmes. “Everything we do is about four key skills: catch, pass, run and evade,” says Anderson.
A few years ago, Anderson found that 90% of primary school teachers in the country are female. Surveys showed that even those who enjoyed watching rugby were reluctant to teach it, partly for fear of kids getting hurt and partly because the rules are so complex.
The answer: Rippa Rugby, a non-contact, small-sided version of the game that can be played anywhere, by kids as young as three years old. Every single primary school in New Zealand has a grass playing field. After a five-year campaign, every primary school in the country also has a Rippa Rugby kit and instruction DVD.
“We’ve had year-on-year growth in the number of primary school kids playing rugby, and Rippa Rugby has been a really big driver in that,” says Anderson. “The landscape for the hearts and souls of kids today is very competitive. There’s an incredible range of opportunities out there for them. We had to ask ourselves how we could make rugby as easy to play and as fun as possible.”
DEVELOPING FAST
Once bitten by the bug, kids are fed through a carefully designed series of programmes, starting at the age of five with the ingeniously named Small Blacks. “We try to line up the skills required with the ability of the kids to perform those skills,” says Anderson.
Between the ages of five and seven, there are no set pieces, no tackling and no kicking. Aged eight onwards, defence skills are introduced – “We teach them to watch the hips, not the ball or the feet; where the hips go, the player follows” – with non-pushing scrums, catching above the head to develop line-out skills and limited post-tackle drills. The pitch is still small while the ball is no bigger than a size three.
Only from 11 do kids take part in 15-a-side games – and even then it is all about ball in hand. Penalties result in possession being handed over, rather than kicks at goal.
PUSHING ON HARD
Rugby is taught in both state and private schools. The quality of coaching there, as my colleague Ben Dirs found out when he visited Rotorua Boys’ High a few weeks ago, is both impressive and prioritised. But the education system is only one part of the rugby development programme.
Kel Victor is president of the prestigious High School Old Boys club in Christchurch, which has produced 30 All Blacks in its 110-year history, including Justin Marshall, Andrew Mehrtens, Aaron Mauger and Dan Carter.
“We have kids here from three years old,” he says. “They play Canter rugby, which is like touch rugby – no tackling allowed, teams of no more than 10, a point for a try. There is a much bigger emphasis on running the ball rather than kicking it. That structure is bred into them – get the wingers involved, get the full-backs running into the backline.
“The standard in the club game is very high. There are 12 teams in the metropolitan region and another union in the country region. Six of them are very strong, with not much difference between them. It’s very competitive and helps develop good players.”
THE CULTURE
The grip that rugby has on the national psyche has waned at times over the years, never more so than when an All Blacks team hosted an apartheid-era Springboks touring team in 1981. The success of the national football team, the All Whites, at the last World Cup also loosened rugby’s grip – but only slightly and only briefly.
“Traditionally, there has been a fundamental insecurity in New Zealand national identity,” says Professor Bruce. “We are constantly searching for who we are and where we are in the world. Sport is one of very few places where New Zealand has excelled on the world stage and so our internationally successful athletes always get a high level of publicity.”
Victor, part of the Old Boys’ club for over 50 years, agrees. “Rugby has a huge niche in a small nation here,” he says. “It dominates all other sports. Everybody knows somebody who knows somebody who knows an All Black. The best thing you can be is a rugby success. If you’re a good player, careers open up in other fields.”
Turn on the television on a Saturday morning and there, on the free-to-air TV2, is a programme called Small Blacks TV. It speaks volumes for the continued place of the All Blacks in the affection of the nations.
Current wing Richard Kahui demonstrates healthy eating in an item called Cooking With Kaks, Conrad Smith reads the latest news with the tagline ‘Stay onside, New Zealand.’ Piri Weepu presents Maori lessons in A Word With Piri, while Dan Carter teaches tricks in DC Skills. The final segment? A game of ‘Who’s Brainier – All Black or Small Black?’
THE BIG STUFF
So much for the finer detail. When you look up from the research and history books at the physical environment around you, it’s hard to miss what’s staring you in the face.
“Our climate and landscape is so conducive to kids running around,” says Anderson. “Most houses have a back yard where a kid can fling a ball around and every town or village has open green fields. That’s a major advantage for us.”
Stroll around any New Zealand town and you soon notice something very striking to British eyes. Where kids back home will be kicking a football around, or a tennis ball, or even a squashed-up drinks can, Kiwi children will have a rugby ball in their hands.
“That constant playing with the ball as a child is often how you learn the key skills in the game,” says Anderson. “Kids walking home from school will be trying new passes or skills to impress their mates. You go to the park or the beach in New Zealand, and the first game everyone will play is touch rugby.
“New Zealand is also blessed with a wonderful genetic mix for rugby. In addition to the European influence, you can add in the size and attitude of the Maori and now the speed and power of the Polynesian islanders.”
@MikeSt: I am not talking SARU here…This must be a business run by businessmen and making their profits once they sell and draft off the players to the unions. a Proper business model run by professionals with top coaches.
@Kattes-Strofes: Agree with everything you say. The evil once again is that only a few selected schools get exposure year after year and once again as you correctly pointed out only a few individuals is highlighted not always based on merit.
@MikeSt: As I said…structures is part and parcel of modern rugby, BUT..good coaches knows how to successfully merge the structured part of play with opportunity..hence the All Black blueprint you saw on Saturday!..Structured defence and phases, yet when opportunity presents itself they can pounce and make use of the individual skill sets…our players where just that 2 seconds to slow on offload or seeing the opportunity!
@BoishaaiPa: They cant even run the supposed green squad system properly how ever would they run an academy with 200 people in it.
@BoishaaiPa: Those guys all had it as they were allowed to play situations and had the freedom. Some of these youngsters even get fined for going out of structure so how will you ever develop vision and the x factor.
@Kattes-Strofes: I agree that we loose a number of talented players via our top heavy school systems and that it is so much more difficult for a player from a smaller school to get noticed, but to blame the SBR environment for the lack of performance at springbok level is a bit far fetched. The raw talent is there, the problem is that there is only a handful of talented enough coaches and developers of this talent, to many “gravy train” riders and excess baggage handlers…What we need is one standard development academy where players are coached for 2 to 3 years after school by real knowledgeable individuals. Not in provincial set-ups, but get the top 200 players involved and draft them into the academy and then into teams that will compete, but give them all the same top quality coaching. After 3 years they will be eligible to go to the Unions who can bid for them via a draft system. The rest of the players will still be able to come through a varsity and club system as well. You can only be drafted after turning 21 and by then the skill levels and abilities will have been evaluated.
I fully agree that the lack of vision/skills should be coached at primary schools. However, you do not find many knowledgeable coaches at a very junior level, who has the patience and commitment, to teach youngsters that vital ingredients.
However! In my opponion the biggest problem is the lack of identifying the best available talent at an early age (u/18), and then developing that talent. One of the biggest culprits in boosting players profiles (a number who does not deserve it), is the media. The commentators normally consults with a team,s coach before a match, to find out who he rates, and then that player,s cv. This is to sound informed and knowledgable. He would then mention this player,s name a number of times, as if he has seen him perform a couple of times. You will constantally hear “This talented boy, who played Craven Week for the WP,has a promising future”. This even happens when the youngster are having a poor match, and the commentator has never seen him play before. The general public (and sadly also some of our selectors) then also want to sound informed, and promote the atributes of this player, even if he is mediocre.
Now having said the above, is it not so that the various school, and Craven Week coaches do have their personal favourates. And there lies a big part of the problem.A coach can therefore promote a player that has mediocre abilties It is also only the big rugby schools that gets exposure on TV and in the newspapers. In the past, Craven week selections were simply made on merit, which gave selectors an oppertunity to also have a look at players from smaller, and remote places. However! This is no longer the case, and therefore a number of talented boys are lost, due to no exposure.
@MikeSt: I think the skill sets are there..you can see it in the SBR players…our players just don’t know how to use it properly. That is where top coaching is needed and where we lack the depth and knowledge to develop it further. You are right that we tend to focus more on strength and phases, but that is part and parcel of the modern game. But, we tend too focus so much on it that we loose the other two vital ingredients in skills (particularly ball distribution) and vision (particularly identifying space and running into space)…The latter is not something easily coached..in fact I don’t think it can be coached to be honest. It is something a top player MUST have..especially if playing in the backs…most definitely when playing 9, 10 or 12. Barret has it, Carter has it…Naas Botha had it…Danie Gerber had it..Michael and Carel Dup had it…Phil Bennet, Gareth Edwards..you can name the greats and they all had great vision and “voorgevoel”…a certain x-factor that they can pre-empt what will happen or where the ball will be. Doc Craven had a great eye for spotting such talent…sadly it seems we don’t have that in our selection ranks anymore.
@Richard Lowe: mnr jy slaan die spyker op sy kop,ons afrigters op profinsiale vlak het n ernstige dumb him down uitwerking op spelers,n baie goeie voorbeeld daarvan is hougie ,hy was n vewoestende skole speler ….tot mnr ludeke hom in die hande gekry het
Ek kan ongelukkig ook nie saam stem met “MNR VOS”, Kom ons vergeet vir n oomblik wat hierdie jaar met SA skole gebeur het. In die verlede het ons skole span en selfs ons naasbestes vir Engeland gewen tydens die jaarlikse toernooi, waar ons O/20 Bokkies al die afgelope paar jaar sukkel om n goeie resultaat teen hulle te kry, vir my vertel dit n ander storie, Ek weet baie skole afrigters konsentreer baie op besluitneming en oefen “scenarios” die hoof doel is om spasie te skep en dan in spasie te speel, sodra spelers aan professionele sisteem blootgestel word word hulle gedwing in spel patrone en word 5- 6 fases verder beplan.
@BoishaaiPa: Selfde vraag wat n mens kan vra is hoe wen jy jy net 5 van jou lynstane waarvan net 2 ordentlike bal was.
@BoishaaiPa: When writing my comment I was actually pre-empting that the focus in response would be on the word Traditional…….
What is different between a Union that signs on 50 – 60 U19 players and Traditional schools signing on 40 – 80 Cravenweek U13 players?
That is exactly my point as we lose a lot of talent due to late developers and boys that stop playing because of not playing in a A team.
As far as the system is concerned my reference again is that schools are left by choice against who they want to and who they dont want to play. No development of skills and getting boys used to week in week out proper hard rugby is gained through elite leagues and competitions.
In this year as far as my classification of Traditional schools is concerned 17 of the 28 was indeed from there. I dont know if that should be an excuse maybe more on the selections that took place.
@Rainier: Dit is vir my baie duidelik dat die verkeerde spelers speel…hoe mis jy 9 tackles in n toets?..Dis net onaanvaarbaar op daardie vlak.
@Rainier: @Rainier: Stem 100% saam.Kyk net hoe swak was WP Cravenweek/SA skole spanne met al die spelers v “nie” tradisionele skole.Nie gewoond aan harde rugby elke naweek nie.
@BoishaaiPa: Die ironie van die saak is dat die Springbok groep soos bo genoem net 7 spelers uit tradisionele rugby skole uit bevat, en dan sluit ek grens gevalle soos Monnas en Grey PE in.
Lyk my die Bokke het meer spelers uit tradisionele skole nodig…
@MikeSt: Lots of sweeping statements with no factual stats to back it up. I quote “Rugby are being destroyed in this country by lack of skills, traditional schools and playing pattern rugby at all costs and the SYSTEM”…In essence you blame the traditional schools as one of the main factors destroying our rugby, while these same schools are in fact the ones that produced the bulk of our Springboks since 1906..successful springboks in successful teams I might add..up til a few years ago. No, I think you are barking up the wrong tree..As with any set-up you will get bad coaches that cannot coach the basics correct and focus on size and strength rather that skillsets…I dont think you will find these coaches in the top rugby schools or coaching top teams as they will be found out very quickly and discarded. The problem is that there is a lack of quality coaching at provincial level from u/19 upwards right through to top levels. There is also a huge lack in identifying players with the right abilities who do have the vision and skills and bringing them through the system. There-in lies our biggest problem, not with the quality of our SBR, but the lack of growing and developing these players further. The success of our jnr teams (excl 2017 models) for SA Schools over the years (with much less preparation than the opponents) and our relative success at u/20 level proves this point to some degree.
I agree that primary schools do not invest in enough skills coaching – from /7 level the children should be taught basic catching and passing skills, proper tackling technique, running into space, evasive running and correct contact skills. Unfortunately there is a dearth of coaches able to do so at that level. Even worse is that spacial awareness and rugby iq is not developed. A simple example is the running of the Y line, a simple drill by Wayne Smith. We could not successfully run the drill this year at /13 level, but it should be taught at /9 and /11 level from next year and it should be second nature by the time the boys are at /13 level.
Having said that I also see a player like Papier being chained to a game plan after he left school that does not allow him the instinctive brilliance that made him s schoolboy rugby star.
There is a lot of blame to go around, but just blaming SBR is an easy out.
Weet nie so mooi of ek saam stem nie ,meeste skole senters soek nog spasie op,jan serfontein was op skool n man wat naam gemaak het omdat hy spasie aan geval het,n speler soos Thakir Abrahams is net eenvoudig te klein om te crash and bash,selfde met wycl8f en janco by grey,mulder by gim val spasie aan,abner ook….
@beet: The problem is not just for guys in High School and school leavers.
Kids from primary school is not developed properly. A typical school setup is based on playing the biggest 2 or 3 boys at Nrs 8, 10 and 12. And thats where rugby stops. No skills is taught to them at all.
Furthermore how good must a coach be to inherit 30 to 40 Craven week players from primary school to high school. What decision making is ever taught to outside backs. Its all pick and go’s, run into one another and and
The real coaches are not the glamour ones attached to the Traditional schools and rugby schools but the coaches that take a normal boy from a normal start setup and make something of them. Will a ex Bok ever coach at a school like put sonder water no they will associate themselves with the big dogs where the money is.
Many a union today are complaining that when youngsters arrive at them their skills levels are non existent. Simple things passing from the wrong foot, ball under the wrong arm, head positions in tackling, off loading skills.
Rugby are being destroyed in this country by lack of skills, traditional schools and playing pattern rugby at all costs and the SYSTEM. The average youngster has no change in hell to come through a system anymore if you are from a unknown school.
This is taking away from the intention of rugby nowadays that rugby is a sport that should be played by all shapes, sizes and and and.
@MikeSt: If his point is that rugby taught at schools does not prepare boys for how they will be coached in a SA pro environment, the he is right. The bash-bash rugby happens at provincial level. Yes, there are schools that still go on about the old bash and crash…but funny enough those are not the ones you will see on any top 20 list. That should say something. I have been preaching for years that SA rugby’s obsession with size over skill is backwards, and that is why we are 57 points behind New Zealand. Nothing to do with schoolboy rugby – for crying out loud we had Boishaai who just recently had a successful tour to NZ. That is a far better yardstick of where SBR is in SA than the Boks’ performance. There is absolutely no correlation in his statement as per McCulleys earlier comment.
@MikeSt: Part of the statement might hold water but to suggest that it is “destroying the game in SA” implies that once kids finish school so too does their development curve and the rugby union’s that inherit them play no further role in molding players. I would have thought that in the first few years after school when aspiring pros can focus purely or mainly on rugby, that these exact qualities such as space awareness and decision-making become key to training programmes.
The statement is 100% correct. I cannot agree with him more.
I’m not sure what schoolboy rugby he’s been watching.
@CharlesZA: Correct. These guys don’t present anything in terms of solutions. The one’s I respect are those that get INVOLVED. Marius Hurter, Michael Bondisio, Gideon Stander, Corne Uys, Slaptjips, John Smit, Braam van Straaten, Owen Nkomane and many others do their part in coaching the youth.
I asked him how many SBR games he watched to make his comments but he back peddled very quickly. Was just easy to blame coaches rather than the team that played kak.
So what where Schools coaching when Carel’s Boks got pumped? I don’t see the correlation.