2 SA Schools team consisting of 26 players per team are set to announced on Supersport’s Boots ‘n All show on Thursday evening of 23 July ( some media outlets reporting Tuesday as the announcement date). The quota requirement is believed to have been set at 50% for both teams.
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@Playa: You shouldn’t take that seriously – there is no day of rest.
@McCulleys Workshop: It’s tough for them to get any other day. Some of these guys have 6 day working weeks, while some play in their respective WP league games on Saturday.
@Playa: Good post. I’m surprised that the club system you mention, isn’t supported in some way by the union. It seems to be exactly where development, funding and resources should be applied to expand the organic system. These are willing participants obviously with passion for the game as opposed to meaningless rugby clinics in the middle of nowhere for half a day with participants who have never played the game, but get a free “I Love Rugby” T Shirt. Surely this shouldn’t happen on the Day of Rest though?
@BOG: I cannot find anything to disagree with in your post. You are absolutely right. And that speaks to exactly why I hate the system.
But I think what people lose sight of is that the whole point is not to all of a sudden go to eMlazi or Qwa Qwa and start getting people off the soccer grounds and on to rugby fields. The whole thing has been badly executed and managed. The point was to merely bring those communities that have already been playing rugby and bringing them onto the mainstream so that they have an equal chance. The demographics of rugby in this country actually do favour blacks more than whites, that’s a fact. Let’s assume the quota system is right: It still wouldn’t be fair to impose the 9 player rule across all provinces – the Cape teams will easily fill that without even scratching around, while the northern teams will battle. The CW stats confirm this…WP, SWD, EP, EPCD, EP and Border had more than the minimum, while FS, Bulls, KZN and Lions had exactly 9.
If you are ever in Cape Town one day, give me a buzz. I will take you to Khayelitsha on a Sunday morning (after church of course). There you will see over 30 clubs playing rugby at a filled stadium. Those guys will never see mainstream rugby and you will never find a single scout there looking for talent, not a single SARU/WP official…and yet this is where Jongi Nokwe was discovered – by fluke! The red tape for those guys to get to the Super League is comparable only to a white person trying to get a tender without a BEE certificate.
FYI: Soweto has a similar programme (about 10 teams), and so does Bloem (about 6 teams). The EC and WC have had these ‘leagues’ running for decades, so it speaks to culture.
@Playa: For as long as there is a rule which prescribes racial quotas in the selection process, there will be a suspicion over the heads of all players who are advantaged by that rule, even though they may be there on merit. Its a fact and Im sure, it must weigh heavily on those players shoulders as well. Its a hard reality that in some areas of SA, rugby is not first choice among “players of colour”. GCB is an excellent example. Although there are significant numbers of “black” kids in the school, you would not think so, when looking at the rugby teams. Conversely, when looking at the soccer sides, one could easily conclude that the school is predominantly “black”. Its a spontaneous choice of the kids- its an undeniable fact and no amount of “development” or social engineering, is going to change that.
@Rugbymal: I am with you 100% on that.
My view is that the point is not to force people who do not like or play the sport to all of a sudden partake in it. But it is to rather provide an opportunity to those who already play, but have been overlooked in the past on racial grounds. For example, KZN has a ‘development’ side that plays against the top teams in KZN, albeit their 2nds or 3rds. My questions are:
1. Is this a team that has been TRULY developed or a team that just gets thrown together before the Port Natal Night Series? In other words, do they come from a grassroots programme run by the union, and have grown together to be an under 18 side?
2. Do these boys get an equal shot as the other top schools players to make Academy/Craven Week?
3. What happens to these boys once they finish school?Do they get an equal shot at academy offers?Or are they just overlooked because they come from the development side, i.e. not good enough?
I honestly don’t know the answers to these questions, maybe a Natalian can enlighten me. If the answers to 1 and 2 are YES, then it baffles me that KZN can complain about a lack of players of colour who play rugby in the province.
I am sorry to seem like I am picking on KZN, it’s not my intention…it’s just that there are other unions who don’t even have development teams (I am not in the business of naming and shaming
), so they were an easy example to pull. I am just glad that they have a development team to begin with…at least it’s a step in the right direction.
@Playa: Exactly my point if you maybe had the chance to read my posts.
The organizations controlling sport is not doing anything right as if they were the use of the words quota, PDI, BEE etc etc should have been a thing of the past.
The biggest problem in the creation of forced rules and regulations on the selection of teams are that no consideration is given to the actual partaking in a specific sport.
If tennis for argument sake is a sport that is loved by a certain group of people within the demographics of the country and they excel within it why do you want to force other demographical groups to play that sport and enforce rules that this is and that is not allowed.
Even in the professional era the playing of a certain sport is played by that individual due to his love for that sport and his talent. You cannot make a boxer, a golfer, a tennis player or even a snooker player.
It is all about the upbringing of that child in the sport that his / her parents normally did play or where those parents expose that child to a sport in which he then sees enjoyment and excellence.
@Rugbymal: The whole thing is a race issue though.The topic itself is a show of the race card. One of the reasons this has yet to be resolved is because people tend to put their heads in the sand when they are made uncomfortable, and get defensive. It is amazing how people only practice the “two sides to a story” principle only when it suits them. In as much as white people are the victims of this unfair policy, we cannot ignore the fact that there are those who are villains here too. Pointing that out is not pulling the race card, it is an acknowledgement of a fact. We can not just deal with one part of the problem, we have to deal with the whole monster.
@BOG: There is a difference between theory and real life practice. Those laws are there, but in my experience, smart people know how to bend them/push the boundaries. Even in corporate, it’s the same thing. I am not in the business of naming and shaming on a public platform, it’s not in my make-up. The people I am talking about know who they are, and I have confronted them, and continue to. I have a day job to do, believe me, I do not ever want to be summoned via a ‘secure line’ to go and answer questions in Newlands for shooting my mouth on a blog. Just take my word for it…it is a reality in SA…BEE, EE, Quota, or whatever laws or articles you have read or not. If you choose be in denial of that fact, well then that’s on your head.
Whenever a person have nothing of value to add to a conversation play the race card.
If i recall correctly the conversation is and was actually about the manner in which development / transformation is taking place and that its a waste of time and money as its not working.
Did anyone perhaps state they don’t allow the sun to shine on anyone? ( Must have misread that thread)
@Playa: If you know such people, name them and if you wish, shame them.I know that there are 119 laws/ articles which are directed in an opposite direction ito labour.@Tarpeys: Perhaps a months compulsory camp, something along the lines of Kamp Staaldraad, a rugby version of the political “boiling pot” theory, might, according to your reasoning, do the trick.? In the meantime, you can demonstrate to us that you do actually practice what you preach by sharing with us what you personally have done to reach that goal. It could serve as inspiration to those people, Playa is about to reveal.
@Tarpeys: “because to most white people, seeing black people doing positive things is a sin in South Africa”
Look at this:
http://www.npr.org/sections/deceptivecadence/2015/03/20/393879727/pretty-yende-an-opera-star-whose-rise-began-with-a-fall
If you’re not proud of that girl as a SA’n, there is something drastically wrong with you. But it wasn’t delivered to her on a silver plate, she had to work damn hard, and that’s the reason to be proud of her.
I’m not being sarcastic, genuinely grateful.
Thanks – censorship at its best.
@Tarpeys: So what you are saying is that all white rugby players that’s not sacrificing their position in the team have bad attitudes….interesting.
@BOG:
” I know of no white person who denies a black person his or her position in any team, providing its on merit. ”
Now who’s living in a world of their own?
@Tarpeys: I dont know where you live, but clearly , in a world of your own. What you are advocating is appeasement and paternalism , not sacrifice. I know of no white person who denies a black person his or her position in any team, providing its on merit. In fact, quotas is having the exact opposite effect of what was intended with it.
@Tarpeys: I think you are quite out of line, if you feel like that it is your problem but saying most whites feels like that is sad. Sacrificing your own opportunity……do you sacrafice your work opportunity for someone else to show your attitude, rugby is a bussiness and a future for alot of boys. Qoutas are here to stay if we like it or not, but try to explain it to a boy that has no idea what happend in the apartheid days.
@Tarpeys: I am glad I am not the one that wrote that
@BOG: That’s the point. Giving money billions or not is not a meaningful contribution because it does nothing to improve the attitude of most white South African. Most white South African have plenty of that including me. Accepting black people as part of the rugby community and sacrificing your own opportunity to include them shows a different attitude. Moaning about quotas shows the need for quotas. Without them I’m afraid, black people wouldn’t be allowed near the hallowed oval ball because to most white people, seeing black people doing positive things is a sin in South Africa
@Tarpeys: Sacrifice is not a problem- total surrender is. In fact, money wise, they have sacrificed billions which have been plundered by ravenous wolves, aka politicians.The corner stone of apartheid was race classification. Fact is, that before the present “selectors” can select a team, they have to do exactly that- classify each player into a group.
@Rugbymal: Hi Rugbymal. Please can you email me.
beetb@telkomsa.net
I think the main problem here is that most white South Africans in general (not all) don’t want to sacrifice anything to build this country.
On a different subject very interesting discussions this morning on a looming time bomb and that will be the application of the BCEA and LRA on professional sportsmen.
Belief that this will be tested in a court of law in the very near future.
@Barry: You make a valid comment in terms of values we teach our children, but we also need them to understand and manage risks and opportunities going forward. In this instance it comes down to what we can control and what we can influence. We must never stop trying to influence where we believe a “better” or more fair solution is possible, e.g.: getting rid of ethnic metrics to drive political agendas and to support real development where it will make a difference (various levels). We (non-political participators) will however never be able to control that process. What we can however control our own decisions and actions, which at this stage does include Europe, Australia, New Zealand and even America (watch that space in the next few years). Once their 15’s team become more competitive internationally, money will be available. Their 7’s team is already competitive! They will however need people that grew up in a rugby culture to support expected growth. Do I think these move issues will be a concern to SARU? Not in the least, they will have enough reasonably good players available in RSA. The issue is that the present system unfairly benefits players that already come out of a (relatively) privileged background and does very little to unlock potential talent from non-traditional feeding grounds. Rugby structures and systems need to be bolstered significantly at “primary” and “secondary” school level (clubs included) to attract and MANAGE the necessary interest and participation from “non-traditional” feeding areas. Problem is that nobody is really accountable or responsible at this stage. Politicians set targets and they do not care how these are achieved. Administrators take the easiest route, which is to play the numbers game. @Playa is absolutely correct when he commented that real transformation has not even started yet (20 years behind).
@Barry: Considering options in the face of adversity, is one way of dealing with a problem. That is how many of our ancestors ended up in Africa, in the first place
After all I have said on the topic of transformation I want to ask one simple question as a parent and dad: are we not teaching our boys how to run away from adversity rather than to face it, by advising then to apply their trade elsewhere?
@Rugbymal: I can not agree more with you. There are scouts and agents going around to schools looking for youngsters to join French Clubs. However the parents have to pay round about R100 000.00 to cover the costs for the first 6 months ( last year’s cost I think). So the international ‘market’ have already identified the possibilities and are moving in.
@Djou: Agree with you. You, better than anybody else will know that if you set out to do research and you have a preconceived outcome, your research will prove your point. Therefore the question should rather be, what is it we want to reseach?
We all do reseach everyday. Even if it is to confirm that we must and need to buy a particular car.
Sometimes the research published is of the latter and actually means very little.
Nasionale weke is verby, en ek dink die Westelike Provinsie het waarskynlik die beste gevaar as mens alle toernooie wat plaasgevind het in oënskou neem. Sal interessant wees om te sien watter provinsie was die wenner in elke afsonderlike toernooi. Ek dink die Bulle en WP het omtrent in elke toernooi kragte gemeet, en WP was elke keer aan die wenkant as ek dit nie mis het nie.
Nou is dit weer terug na skole rugby, en sien ons uit na ‘n baie interessante laaste kwartaal van rugby.
Going back to my post earlier. If you get a chance move your son international NOW as there is no future in the game in RSA.
I have been working with the guys from International countries academies for the past 2 months and they have a list of positions where they are looking for youngsters aged 18 – 20 to take up in their academies immediately with the 1st right of refusal to play for that country after a trial of 12 months.
Thats is the only way for our youngsters. Natural progression and Transformation could not take place in 20+years what will change in the next 10 – 15 years.
Nothing but the old story on and on and on and on and on to force it down immaterial if the standard drops.
@Djou: Cant agree with you more.
With a spending of
2010 R 41 000 000,00
2011 R 43 000 000,00
2012 R 68 000 000,00
2013 R 94 000 000,00
Total R 246 000 000,00
in 4 years (and still researching prior year figures) what has happened to this money.
What was it spend on?
What was the results of the spending?
In 2008 R 20 000 000.00 were spend. We are 7 years later?
@Rugbymal: Interesting read indeed – and something that should be thrown away.
The moment I read numbers such as 10%, 25% and 50% I knew no research was done. It is thumb sucked numbers plucked out of the air. Why don’t these guys just do the proper research to determine what is achievable, what not and what interventions are needed to make it achievable?
In addition, no targets on how it should be achieved! Will it all fall out of the air?
Lots of focus on increasing participation, but now what the best methods are to increase participation. And nothing on how schools should operate to make the SARU goals achievable. And where will the money come from if the schools are not assisted?
So, with all these pipe dreams and ill founded goals, we will in 2019 see SARU explaining to government why it was not achieved.
But it is actually the same as some government departments (and may I add private sector companies) – very good at writing up plans, but bad at proper research, implementing and achieving.
@Djou: @oupadejoostin: dus my vraag, craven week form of seisoen vooraf, voor craven week ja in die span, by craven week se form glad nie in die span nie.
SARU has spend millions on development of the game and this has not achieved the desired results.
What is development of players:
Having a 3 hour Saturday morning clinic NO
The handing out of T Shirts and drinks NO
Passing and kicking of a few balls NO
Players hanging around clinics teaching skills NO
The bottom line is that development should start from birth.
This must be achieved by making rugby a dream for a boy from day one and the parents must create this dream and hunger.
Only parents from the age of birth to 6 can create the visibility of the sport within its child and the hunger to one day become a Springbok. No development transformation can do that.
Sport is a culture a way of making a life nowadays and if the culture is nor bred then no plan will ever succeed.
School level:
Rugby should then be played at all schools giving the sport exposure to all elements of life.
If schools does not develop no one else will or can do this.
SARU should invest monies back into the schools and not the millions spend on structures and staff that has achieved very little.
Saturday morning clinics at massive costs just dont add any value to anything.
Below is a meeting that was held in 2012 allocating R72million to development.
https://pmg.org.za/committee-meeting/14410/
Below is the SARU strategic plan very interesting reading indeed.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/238915511/SaruTransformation-Plan
@beet: Indeed! You can’t expect 50-50 participation in a 75-25 environment. The policy is ignorant. And not to sound like a broken record, but SARU misses the point completely where grassroots development is concerned, and that is the cornerstone of transformation. It doesn’t start by picking a HP side at under 16. And it’s only going to get worse given the obsession with schools to hunt a under 13 tournaments…they too are no longer interested in developing players from a very young age.Everyone seems to be interested in results without the will to put in the effort.
@oupadejoostin: Ek het hom seker al in 20+ wedstryde sien speel, daarom dat ek dink ek ‘n beter oordeel kan fel. En dit wat jy noem is nie kenmerke van sy spel nie – die teenoorgestelde.
@Ploegskaar:
me thinks Danie Craven had a point 
@pietretief: From what I understand only Craven Week form counts which is a step backwards IMO.
It makes sense to use season form as the guideline and work that in with performances at CW. I guess with trials falling away it makes it harder to justify looking outside of CW.
@BOG: @beet: Ja well no fine…in theory. But the term ‘advantaged’ is just too broad to make such a statement. I could give you a handful of reasons you may not have thought of, of why they are in fact ‘disadvantaged’. It’s more than just about being financially ‘alright’.
Calling them (us) POC certainly sits better with me than PD. There are whites who are previously disadvantaged, so it’s not fair on them to have such a label and yet they are still excluded from the group.Those who came up with the system need to show face and call it what is and not sugar coat it.
Merit selections would go a long way to identifying where the transformation challenges lie. Clearly this year it would be in the tight 5. There is a risk that an SA C team picked on merit might be more competitive that the B team and perhaps even the A team.
This topic is controversial / sensitive but it should be out there being discussed. It makes no sense to have a system which decreases the quality of players to window dress a situation. The focus must be genuinely gear towards quality based transformation.
There also has to be a reality check that rugby at a high quality level all over the world has become a sport out of the economic reach of poorer people – it would be interesting for parents who sponsor their own kids that play 1st XV level to work out a Rand value that rugby has cost them over 5 years of high school – kit, gym, medical, supplements, local tours, the works. Then you take that and consider what happens to currently disadvantaged players who only start to show promise in say Gr 10, so miss out on 2-3 years of the required financial investment needed keep them on track. Is there still a net to catch these players and pour in the extra money needed to help them catch up.
@pietretief: Ek dink daar is n verskil tussen n paneel van keurders wat by n toernooi soos CW, erkenning aan die verskillende spelers moet gee deur n keuse te maak van wie was beste en 2de beste teenoor n span wat gekies moet word om sekere opponente te gaan speel en die land te verteenwoordig. Die afrigters gaan n paar dae he om die span voor te berei om moeilike teenstanders aan te vat. Gaan hulle die luxury he van kombinasies wat vir hulle gekies is bv, voorye, haker – slotte, loose-trio, skakelpaar, senterpaar ens. As hulle net n groep spelers kry wat in spanverband net saam gegooi is, het hulle klaar n groot agterstand en groot uitdaging.
As kwotas ook nog n rol speel……… arme afrigters.
Die speel van die beplande games gaan dan net formaliteit wees en die doel gaan dan wees om te oorleef en nie om te wen nie.
Die beste span moet gekies word met n kombinasie van wat hul ken, wat hul nou gesien het, watter tipe spelers beter gaan speel onder die omstandighede en met watter spelers die afrigters mee voor kans sien om die @#$%$#@ Engelse op te dons!!!!
@BOG: Any player who has been at one of the Top 100 maybe even Top 200 rugby schools for 2 years or more is a currently advantaged player for sure irrespective of race.
Maybe I should say PDC players – previously disadvantaged community or POC – player of colour to be more specific.
Either way it’s a political thing.
@Djou: Die meeste briljante spelers soos ons hulle ken, sak uit as hulle by die Bulle patroontjie rugby begin speel.(Moet speel). Hy sit met dieselfde probleme as wat by super 15 by die bulle die jaar afgespeel het op 9. (Hougie versus die ander) Ek het dit oorweeg in my kras kritiek . Die game teen Boland het ongelukkig my finale mening beinvloed. Verskeie passes het die teiken gemis. Bo oor kop, agter die rug verby, 10 moes sy lyne en spoed paar keer aanpas om wel die bal te kon vang. Miskien nie gewoond om saam die pak forwards te speel nie. Tempo of pace was net te stadig en rukkerig voor. Tov die backline wat so gesukkel het om aan die gang te kom wil ek graag 10 die skuld gee maar die bal het te stadig by hom uitgekom. Dink nie die game was op TV nie. Kyk bietjie die video’s beskikbaar en laat weet hoe jy voel.
@beet: I notice that you refer to PD players. Unless they have cheated with their age, none of the current crop of school players, could have been disadvantaged or benefited by the system. If they were, it should be reported to the “rights” courts
@Ploegskaar: dit is wat my pla, is wanneer is die spanne werklik gekies, want hulle het verseker niks op die laaste dag wys geword nie, almal het op verskillende velde gespeel. Word die seun op repetasies gekies, of die wat meeste flash teen swak kompetisie. Oupajooste het vroeer iewers genoem dat seuns moontlik gekies gaan word op laas jaar se prestasie, nie net quota spelers nie, wat verseker nie die beste was die jaar nie.
@oupadejoostin: Ek dink ons het 2 verskillende spelers gesien.
Hy is ‘n talent wat jy nie agter enige bos uitskop nie.
Onthou, by sy skool het hy vrye teuels om die spel te speel soos hy dit sien en by Bulle moet hy patroon speel.
Hy is een van min spelers wat iets uit niks maak, sy aangee is suiwer, sy besluitneming is goed, sy dekverdediging puik, sy boxkicks is baie goed en hy het spoed en ongelooflike systap en skep wonderlike kanse vir sy medespelers.
Hy moes in een wedstryd agter ‘n verloorpak speel wat geen beskerming gebied het nie en tog kon hy skaflik vertoon. Nou, kom ons sit sy mededinger skrumskakels agter verloorpakke en doen dan die vergelyking.
M.a.w. appels met appels.
@pietretief: Judging by some of the players that will be announced, the “selectors” watched “rugby” in a parallel universe and/or were on tik. The best 1, 3, 8, 9, 10, 12, possibly 13, will not be in the “A” team, maybe not even in the “B” team
@beet: beet do you think that the selection was only done at craven week or do the selectors take form of the players during the year into consideration and only confirm at craven week.
In terms of the process, the two teams should have been picked by now and today the SARU president has to sign them off to make it all official.
From what I’ve watched of Craven Week, it must have been quite a challenge to select the forwards particularly the frontrow where I think they would have been looking for 12 out of 52 players = about 23% of the combined squads. It didn’t get that much easier in the second row with regards to selections, with all but one of the top contenders being classified as PA players.
The backs on the other hand shouldn’t pose too much difficulty finding the sort after quality.
Bottomline is selections where race comes into is not easy at all and definitely made more challenging this year by the shortage of standout PD players in the tight 5.
@Djou: Het lank getwyfel oor sy naam op my lys maar jammer, was nie die beste op CW nie. Op die vlak verwag mens meer van hom en veral omdat almal weet waartoe hy in staat is en met wie hy kompeteer, is ek meer krities oor sy spel. Van hier gaan sy spel in alle opsigte geevalueer en tot die fynste ontleed word. Hy is te stadig agter die oond. Met die goeie pak voorspelllers kon hulle nie ritme behou nie, kon nie momentum opbou nie, was rukkerig en kon hulle nie van die fases oorheers nie. Hy was in beheer om die tempo van sy pak te beheer. In die toestande moes hulle vanaf 9 speel. Onder ander omstandighede kon hulle van 10 af speel maar 10 was ook nie op sy beste nie. Sy kommunikasie met 10 was swak. Wil albei die skuld gee maar sy passes na 10 was nie akkuraat nie. Veral op die laaste game moes 10 bontstaan om die balle gevang te kry. Dit is eers in die 2de helfte waar die backline aan die gang gekom het. Die omstandighede was nie goed nie maar met sy ondervinding sou ek verwag dat hy dit sou beheer en daarvolgens speel. Spel patroon was miskien n coaching ding maar hy het swak vertoon. Alhoewel hy n prys gekry het vir sy skitterende drie, maak dit nie sy tekortkomminge reg nie. Laastens is sy skoppies uit die hand uit nie goed en effektief nie tov afstand, hoogte en posisie op die veld nie en het dit balbesit omgedraai en onnodige druk weer op die span gesit.
@oupadejoostin: Stem met sekere van jou punte saam. Maar waar op dees aarde kom jy daaraan dat die skrumskakel nie op standaard is nie.
Dalk moet jy meer rugby sien bo en behalwe al die rugby wat jy kyk. Hy is een van die talentvolste wat die land in ‘n baie lang tyd gesien het en dan nog ‘n harde werker daarby.
@BoishaaiPa: 100% agreed!!!
Menere, menere, menere; is ons regtig verbaas? Meeste van ons is seker bewus van SARU se “Strategic Transformation Plan” wat op hulle webwerf gepubliseer is. Dit is duidelik dat ALLE aspekte van SA Rugby (hulle noem nie skool-verband spesifiek) teen 2019 ten minste tot 50% “Black African” getransformeer moet wees. Stem saam daar is goeie “BA” talent beskikbaar vir top spanne, maar so ook is daar hope “ander” goeie talent beskikbaar. In my opinion it is downright disrespectful to persons of darker and lighter colour (ALL) to enforce goals that are clearly driven by ethnic classification. WTF is happening with us? We are all acting like frogs in a pot being boiled. Anybody who only so much as dares to speak out about this is branded as “anti”. If I was one of the BA dads or moms I would be equally ashamed for not doing anything about this. Are you sitting back and smiling or do you have enough “schutzpha” to allow some honour into the system?
@Barry: Of course this situation does not have to be accepted. No change in the world would ever have occurred if someone had not said “But is there not a different or better way?”
@BOG: Laat ek dit so stel:- Stem saam met jou versoek vir die vraag na eerlikheid? As ons weet wat hul eerlik bedoel met hul doen en late, kan ons weet waar ons staan. Die vb wat ek gebruik het van Mandela dag is om te demonstreer dat SA op grondvlak werk, en die inmenging van die regering ongevraagd is. Kwotas hoef dus nie afgedwing te word nie. Die mense van SA doen elke dag wat hul op Mandela dag doen, dit word net nie aan die groot klok gehang altyd nie en word net die negatiewe en afbrekende dinge verkondig. Kwotas is vir al ons mense vernederend en net die regering dring daarop aan.
Ek sê weer: Ons kan niks teen die ‘transformasiebeleid’ nie, dis daar om te bly.
Vat dit op jou eie lewe, ‘transformasie’ is oral teenwoordig. Daar was van die begin af gesê dat die stryd nie met ‘wapens’ gewen gaan word nie maar met wetboeke. Vir sekere mense is ‘transformasie’ ‘n daaglikse stryd wat ‘gewen’ moet word, en juis daarom is wette in plek gesit om die wat nie wil saamwerk nie te dwing om saam te werk. Die wat benadeel word deur ‘transformasie’ beleef dit as negatief en die wat bevoordeel beleef dit as ‘n reg.
Transformasie gaan ‘n speler ook net help tot op ‘n punt dan gaan die ‘bubble’ bars of ‘droom’ eindig in hartseer.
Wat ek wel sien is die uittog van spelers op jong ouderdomme om vir ander lande uit te draf, en dis presies wat die politici wil hê.
Dis maar net my beskeie opinie.
@oupadejoostin: Daar verskil ek natuurlik met jou. Mense moet “ongelooflike” dinge doen vir ander redes as “Mandela dag”, en gereeld- sekerlik meer as een maal per jaar. En natuurlik, glo ek, is daar bitter min mense ten gunste van kwotas, spesifiek onder die mense wie sport beoefen of lief is daarvoor. Die grootste steun kom van mense wie uitsluitlik politieke motiewe het, en in hulle lewens, nog nooit naby n sportveld was nie. So, die beginsel moet beveg word, hetsy hulle dit erken of ontken.
@BOG: Stem saam. As dit eers amptelik is, kan ons aangaan en weet ons waar ons staan. Bitter min mense is daarteen maar almal wil aangaan en dinge maak werk. As mens sien watter ongelooflike dinge gewone mense doen op bv Mandela dag, (ongeag ras of kleur) kan die politici maar rustig raak. (Verdwyn)
@Rugbymal: Thanx. Die regering dink om te transformeer is om n kind vir n provinsiale span te kies, n sweetpak, sak en mooi t-shirt te gee en dan is hulle job gedoen. Hulle dink nie aan die hartseer gevolge vir die arme kind nie. Ek wil nie eers uitwei oor al die probleme in die verskillende sport soorte op skole vlak nie maar rugby stewels, die regte kwaliteit tekkies, sport bra’s vir die girls by netball en atletiek, sakgeld, vervoer na oefeninge…….. Dit kom maar altyd neer op die res van span se ouers om (agter die skerms) in te spring en dinge te laat werk.
@oupadejoostin: Die hoeksteen van apartheid, was natuurlik rasklassifikasie, en die opponente van die sisteem, se grootste morele beswaar. Dit word nou van die keurders verwag om hierdie immorele funksie te verrig namens die regime en hulle kan dus hoogstens bepaal dat die speler OENSKYNLIK tot n bepaalde groep behoort. Ek sal egter wil he dat hulle amptelik en in die openbaar moet erken dat hulle die kinders eerstens klassifiseer, voordat hulle n keuse kan uitvoer. Ek soek dus EERLIKHEID.
@McCulleys Workshop: I think you should read my very first comment again. That is exactly what I said or intended to say.
@oupadejoostin: Wil jou komplimenteer op jou posts wat baie sin maak en insigewend is.
Die sisteem blaas rasse haat en die isolasie van mense aan. Soos jy se daar is geen rede om kwotas uit teblaker nie. Daar is genoegsame talent.
Is die agenda regtig om kwotas af te forseer of is dit om die hele ras ding aan te blaas.
Dink die agendas van die rol spelers is eerder die vernietiging van die sport bloot deur die manier wat hulle dit doen.
A team picked on the basis of quotas can never be a team in the true sense.
Daar is tog n paar voordele daaraan as hulle dit amptelik maak en sodanig verklaar.
Nou kan ons dit op die naam noem en openhartig bespreek. (Call a spade a spade)
Ek voorsien klomp probleme en uitdagings vir die keurders en afrigters.
Tensy hulle oor inligting beskik waarvan ons nie kennis dra nie, weet ek nie hoe gaan hulle weet wie gekleurd is en wie is nie.
Ek vra by voorbaat om verskoning as ek iemand gaan beledig maar die realiteit is die volgende gaan van belang wees.
Hulle het slegs n afskrif van die kinders se ID en n vorm wat ingevul is oor “geskatte” gewig, lengte ens.
(Wie gaan definieer wie is gekleurd en wie is wit.)
Die kinders se name en vanne weergee nie hul kleur nie so gaan hulle op die kind se velkleur raai waar hy inpas of gaan hul na gelaatstrekke, tipe hare ens begin kyk. (Vernedering op sy ergste!!!!!!)
Daar gaan dan ook n sekere getal spelers van n kleur ten alle tye op die veld moet wees.
(7½ gaan nie werk nie so sal seker 7 of 8 wees.) Wie gaan bevoordeel word?
Ek weet van n paar kinders en ouers wat die wereld warm gaan maak vir die keurders as hulle nie in die spanne is nie en veral as hulle die kinders verkeerd geklassifiseer het. (oeps, gedink jou kind is wit!!!)
Die teenstanders kom hiernatoe met vol sterkte spanne en sogenaamde “gameplans “ om ons te kom opvoeter op die tipe velde, tipe rugby wat ons speel ens.
Let wel :- Engeland, Frankryk ens het wel gameplans en kom ten volle voorbereid hiernatoe.
Dit bring my by die volgende uitdaging.
Ons keurders / afrigters gaan nie die luxury he van keuses van spelers tov gameplans of nat veld toestande, wie teenstanders is, ens. nie en gaan n span kry wat 50/50 saam gestel is deur n groep mense. (Ongeag die tipe rugby wat die kind speel)
So as ons n klomp groot, swaar voor spelers kies wat buite in die agterlyn rondhang wat net wil balle dra en “flashy” lyne wil hardloop – soos laasjaar teen Engeland, gaan ons weer pakslae kry.
(Selfs by die jong bokkies die jaar was dit ook een van ons probleme).
Die arme afrigters gaan hul hare vol he om spelers te speel en te vervang tydens beserings of om swak plekke in die oppisissie uit te buit of eie swak plekke reg te stel….. as hy beperk is met getalle en sy speler wat op daardie belangrike tydstip, nie die regte kleur het nie!
Dan laastens het ons sekerlik genoeg spelers van kleur om die beste moontlike span saam te stel sonder enige voorskrifte van regering en sonder om kinders te verneder.
Die ander probleem is dat die spelers van kleur wat laasjaar al gekies was en nou waarskynlik weer gekies gaan word, (heelagter, skrummie, agsteman, flank) IS NIE OP STANDAARD NIE, WAS NIE DIE BESTE IN HUL POSISIES TYDENS DIE CW NIE, en gaan waarskynlik weer in die span wees waar hul velkleur n rol gaan speel. (Wat n jammerte en skande!!!!!)
Ons, en veral ons kinders sien nie meer kleur in hul maats, spanmaats nie.
Nou word hul gedwing om hul kleur raak te sien !!!!!!
Dit maak my so die joos in………..
@BOG: Jy weet mos dit is onmoontlik
@BoishaaiPa: I disagree with you entirely. There are enough good players – full stop. This is 2015 not 1994.
@Speartackle: Ek dink dit is in n groot mate n by-produk van “Donker Verligtheid” (Dark Enligtenment) Gaan google dit en lees op daaroor, maar wees bereid om te konsenteer- vir lank
My statement may not be politically correct but I dont really care. In every provincial team 7 quota players are included not always the best but by no other choice selected. The Cape and EC areas are excluded from this as these boys grow up with rugby and play it from a young age.
Boys are left at home who could have come through the system.
These boys had the same post apartheid benefits than anyone else do why should they be protected under a quota system.
This is apartheid in reverse and an attack on the sport.
Luckily not having a child i would recomend all parents to send their boys overeas if they gave any talent as they will become average in a country where being average is ok.
@BOG: fully agree with you.
@BOG: Ag tog jy weet mos nou al vir dekades die spul nasionaliste is n klomp ja-broers
It would seem that you all accept the principle of quotas. It may even be true that 99% of the best players are “of colour”, but what about next year and the following? As long as there is a rule/law which prescribes the selection criteria, there is political interference. As long as there is a rule/law which enforces selection on the basis of race, there is racism- period. Under the old dispensation it was generally accepted that there were many countries which were a lot more racist than SA, but SACBOCs argument was that SA was the only country where it was LEGISLATED. The principle still applies. And I would hope to see some principled arguments being presented here, rather than a cowardly capitulation and acceptance of this evil racism.
@BoishaaiPa: the names you named are good talented players, are they all the best in there positions? Some defenitly and others not.
@pietretief: 50% constitutes about 11 players per team..I just named 20 off the top of my head that is most definatly not quota players and that can be picked on their own merits. There is surely some more that I cant remember the names of from what I have seen.
@BoishaaiPa: to have 50% in one team should not be a problem but it might be a problem when they pick the second team, that is why they inforce it.
@Ludz: I get all bedonnerd if SARU wants to force this issue in this day and age when we who follow SBR already know there is plenty enough good players around. They will come through the systems eventually without having to force the issue.
Agreed, 50% is an easy ‘quota’ to fill.
Will players like Dowrie, Loubscher, Bosch , Mafu, Vermeulen, Willemse, February, Salamo, Moerat, Ncusane, Ras, Muller, Papier, Simelane, Libbok, Davis, Nkomo, Dayimani, Njezula, Guma to name a few be seen as quota players if they are picked?..I don’t think so, they are all excellent players in their own right without needing the “quota” tag around their shoulders.
@BoishaaiPa: Agree
I don’t think it would be such a big issue. They can actually scrap the “quota” issue as it is disrespectful to all players. There is enough good players of colour who would make the teams in any case. If you pick the best players you would probably end up with a 50% representation anyway. That is my opinion after having watched all the games this past week.