Original post from July 2014
UNOFFICIAL FINALS RECORD
| # | TEAM | P | W | D | L | PF | PA | PD | RES% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Western Province | 20 | 12 | 0 | 8 | 382 | 352 | 30 | 60% |
| 2 | Free State | 17 | 8 | 0 | 9 | 317 | 275 | 42 | 47% |
| 3 | Blue Bulls | 9 | 7 | 0 | 2 | 221 | 144 | 77 | 78% |
| 4 | Golden Lions | 12 | 4 | 1 | 7 | 185 | 280 | -95 | 38% |
| 5 | Pumas | 5 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 85 | 75 | 10 | 60% |
| 6 | Eastern Province | 8 | 3 | 1 | 4 | 135 | 123 | 12 | 44% |
| 7 | South Western Districts | 4 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 76 | 92 | -16 | 50% |
| 8 | KwaZulu-Natal | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 53 | 76 | -23 | 50% |
| 9 | Boland | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 16 | 31 | -15 | 50% |
| 10 | Griffons | 3 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 44 | 43 | 1 | 33% |
| 11 | Border | 2 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 22 | 23 | -1 | 25% |
| 12 | Valke | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 19 | 23 | -4 | 0% |
| 13 | Leopards | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 9 | 16 | -7 | 0% |
| 14 | Griquas | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 11 | -11 | 0% |
| 88 | 42 | 4 | 42 | 1564 | 1564 | 0 |
UNOFFICIAL FINAL BY YEAR
| VENUE | YEAR | WINNER | RUNNER-UP | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Middelburg (Mpuma.) | 2014 | Eastern Province | 25 | 7 | South Western Districts |
| Polokwane | 2013 | Western Province | 45 | 29 | Golden Lions |
| Port Elizabeth | 2012 | Blue Bulls | 47 | 0 | Golden Lions |
| Kimberley | 2011 | Free State | 28 | 17 | Golden Lions |
| Welkom | 2010 | Free State | 42 | 21 | Western Province |
| East London | 2009 | Western Province | 19 | 17 | Free State |
| Pretoria | 2008 | South Western Districts | 31 | 25 | Free State |
| Stellenbosch | 2007 | Free State | 52 | 3 | Western Province |
| Johannesburg | 2006 | Blue Bulls | 35 | 20 | Golden Lions |
| Bloemfontein | 2005 | Golden Lions | 38 | 15 | Eastern Province |
| Nelspruit | 2004 | Free State | 17 | 16 | Western Province |
| Wellington | 2003 | Western Province | 22 | 17 | Free State |
| Pietermaritzburg | 2002 | Western Province | 31 | 16 | Free State |
| Rustenburg | 2001 | South Western Districts | 26 | 20 | Blue Bulls |
| Port Elizabeth | 2000 | Pumas | 19 | 18 | Boland |
| George | 1999 | Western Province | 15 | 11 | Eastern Province |
| Vanderbijl Park | 1998 | Blue Bulls | 23 | 19 | Valke |
| Kimberley | 1997 | Blue Bulls | 29 | 27 | Western Province |
| Stellenbosch | 1996 | Blue Bulls | 24 | 12 | Western Province |
| Bloemfontein | 1995 | Free State | 15 | 13 | Boland |
| Newcastle | 1994 | Border | 13 | 13 | Eastern Province |
| Secunda | 1993 | Blue Bulls | 25 | 13 | South Eastern Transvaal |
| Pretoria | 1992 | Western Province | 22 | 15 | Free State |
| East London | 1991 | Blue Bulls | 10 | 9 | Border |
| Durban | 1990 | KwaZulu-Natal | 18 | 8 | Northern Transvaal |
| Johannesburg | 1989 | Golden Lions | 17 | 6 | Eastern Province |
| Port Elizabeth | 1988 | Western Province | 16 | 3 | Free State |
| Paarl | 1987 | KwaZulu-Natal | 22 | 22 | Transvaal |
| Graaff-Reinet | 1986 | Pumas | 19 | 12 | Western Province |
| Witbank | 1985 | Free State | 23 | 15 | Transvaal |
| Bloemfontein | 1984 | Golden Lions | 3 | 0 | Eastern Province |
| Upington | 1983 | Free State | 13 | 9 | South Eastern Transvaal |
| Windhoek | 1982 | Pumas | 25 | 7 | Northern Free State |
| Worcester | 1981 | Golden Lions | 11 | 7 | Western Province |
| Stellenbosch | 1980 | Free State | 16 | 6 | Transvaal |
| East London | 1979 | Griffons | 9 | 6 | Free State |
| Middelburg (Mpuma.) | 1978 | Western Province | 12 | 3 | Free State |
| Oudtshoorn | 1977 | Eastern Province | 19 | 17 | Western Province |
| Wolmaransstad | 1976 | Boland | 13 | 9 | Free State |
| Pretoria | 1975 | Eastern Province | 46 | 13 | Natal |
| Johannesburg | 1974 | Western Province | 22 | 12 | South Western Districts |
| Stellenbosch | 1973 | Western Province | 36 | 7 | Transvaal |
| Potchefstroom | 1972 | Western Province | 16 | 9 | Western Transvaal |
| Kimberley | 1971 | Western Province | 11 | 0 | Griquas |
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“This twelve months using their teaching change and their several style and then the months that they offensively, appearing the absolute best of our department for years, it can be unique, ” Toews stated following the team’s dawn skate Monday. “It may…
Somebody tell me! Why has Affies or Edwards rather pulled out of our(GW) yearly derby?
Is he soon going to play with himself as they are not playing Monnas anymore, not Garsies anymore, not Glenwood anymore…. I think the only team they play in Pretoria is Waterkloof. All these teams they don’t play anymore can push up to 4 teams in all age groups. So what is left? Parents better get Voyager miles cause you are going to move around the country next year. I also believe that at festivals Mr Edwards would like to see who they play against before he approves. Who are these people? Affies only played 15 games this year compared to average 23.
Yet Affies retain Westville and Maritzburg College derbies? What the hell did we do wrong? Answer please someone out there!
[…] Craven Week unofficial winners 1971-2014 | … – beet on 8 July, 2014 @ 09:08. Initially I believed that WP and the Blue Bulls were the favourites to make this 2014 unofficial final but based on the Bondedag result … […]
Anyone know what happened to the very talented WP centre,Jeremy Reingold, who played for SA Schools team in 85. We used to sit in awe at his electric speed and hard defense and suddenly he disappeared! Once heard he’d immigrated and played another code? Lots of Grey Bloem Boys in that side
@Babbelas: Ek dink hy dra vandag no sulke klein broekies, hy is betrokke by Transvalia in Vanderbijlpark, iets met conditioning te doen,… maar dat hy vinnig was is ‘n feit. Terloops sy jonger boetie is die skoolhoof by Transvalia.
Hel, dit is ‘n sterk Skolespan. Talle spelers het in senior rugby sterk na vore getree. Bernard Pienaar was die kaptein – verstaan hy bly nou in NZ.
@Queenian: The replacement for Cullinan put over a freak drop goal from his own 10 yard so I don’t think they missed him much. By the way, College also had a weakened team that day. Had to go to school as normal (was a mid week game) and then played the game. No excuses though. Was a good game of rugby.
@meadows: Hiers spoed, Hiers spoed…
@Queenian: This is the list I have. Dont know how 100% accurate it is.
Barnard Lee (Transvaal)
Bolus Robert (Western Province)
Bonthuys John (Western Province)
Campher Fanie (Stellaland)
Carty Shane (Transvaal)
Cawood Mark (Western Province)
Du Preez André (South Western Districts)
Du Toit Dawie (Transvaal)
Geldenhuys Jan (Free State)
Hancke Wim (Transvaal)
Hankinson Rob (Natal)
Kleinberg Mark (Border)
Koch Agie (Western Province)
Kruger Ernst (Transvaal)
Kruger Warren (Western Province)
Laubscher Michael (Western Province)
Mallett Nick (Eastern Province)
Matthysen John (Free State)
Pienaar Bernard (Western Province)
Rautenbach George (Western Province)
Roux Daan (Stellaland)
Smith David (Rhodesia)
Stoop Ockert (Eastern Transvaal)
Thompson Malcolm (Natal)
Visagie Johan (Western Transvaal)
Weitz Gerhard (Free State)
White Bruce (Natal)
Can anybody please give a list of the 1st SA Schools team from 1974.
@Babbelas: The 3rd would have been Gary Loest who pulled out of SA school,s in 83 due to a torn calf muscle.
@All Black: You mention that in 1984 if College had got a penalty over against Queens they would have had 2 un-beaten years. I f I remember Queens won that game 15-13 which was played in Maritzburg without 3 of Queens main players of that year one been Daryl Cullinan who was in England at the time so playing at home against a weakend QC team showed more the strength of QC that year.
here is a clip from Youtube that brought back a few memories;
Jaco Reinach ’86 against the NZ Cavaliers. His is the last of 4 tries in this clip – the one where old Gerhard Vivier could only manage “dis spoed..”
Carel du Plessis and Danie Gerber were no slouches either
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJsB-OL730
@kosie @Andre T: En toe kom iemand anders en noem dit:
Vinnig Fenske Reinach.
Wat was Jaco Reinach se tyd oor 100m?
Sal nooit vergeet hoe hy Gert Smal ingehaal het in Shimlas vs Puk-game. Smal dag hy is deur met niemand naby hom nie (van 10-treelyn af), toe word die afstand tussen die 2 verskriklik vinnig kleiner en Reinach duik vir Smal voor die doellyn dat die gras spat.
@Tjoppa: Bakkies as a 19 year old played a game for Eastern Transvaal/Valke on the wing when they had a lot of injuries. That was in in Currie Cup B division.
He played scrum half at u 13 level. He and Danie Rossouw were 9 and 10 in the same CW team!
@Babbelas: Carlin Isles from USA 4.22 secs over 37m or 40 yards with a 10.24 over 100m. Currently the world’s fastest?
@Roger: Ngwenya may have had the wheels to get around Habana, but he was not fast enough to get past Bakkies “Chuck Norris” Botha – see below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWhGtoi8BOU
Apparently Frik du Preez could also run the 100 yards (91 odd meters) in under 11 seconds.
@Roger: I saw Danie Gerber in 1987 I think, bare feet on tartan in Pilditch stadium running the 100 m in 11 seconds flat to win a race specially organized for rugby players.
In that race Jaco Coetzee, then Police 8 th man and later he played for Free State, was leading after 30 meters!
@Babbelas: that’s it – he had proper wheeeeeeels
@Roger: Ngwenya
@Andre T: Die man met die klein broekies wat later vir NKP en NTVL B vleuel gespeel het. Hy het so ‘n wit XR3 gery …….niemand hoef hom te gelike het nie, hy like hom self!
@meadows: James Small and Pieter Hendricks both did 10.5 apparently
who was that USA winger who smoked Habana at 2007 world cup – he was from Zim and playing for the USA?
@kosie: Oliver was a good flyhalf, underrated in Natal. At Dbn Collegians he played 2nds mostly behind Nigel Smith before moving up to JHB where he blossomed.
@Roger: On the subject of 100m speed apparently Tonderai Chavangu with a 100m time of 10.27 has been our quickest of recent times. Habana has a 100m time of 10.4
@Roger: You are correct Kearsney. I think class of 1982/3. I still remember him well. Tragic motor car accident I think from Sun City.
@Andre T: Ek het mos al voorheen genoem dat dit daai “styfgeit” was wat jou tennisloopbaan korgeknip het!…en die rede hoekom jy nooit mixed doubles kon speel nie!
@beet: Grasshopper is correct – Simon Berridge was another who could shift. He still holds the 200m inter high record set in 1983 – 21.5
Warren McCann had incredible gas over 40/50 meters – when Cameron Oliver was Tvl fly half and McCann was wing he just skip passed to McCann and let him run around his opposite number. He left most wingers for dead
Cameron Oliver – Kearsney wasn’t he – also sadly no longer with us
@Babbelas:
Wat is die trappe van vergelyking van vinnig?
Vinnig…….Vinniger……..Venske
Dit was volgens ou Harry self
@Babbelas: @beet: @beet: Justin Swart, matriculating not long after me, was an excellent sprinter over 40m and 100m, played on the wing and full-back, and could slot over penalties from half way at under 15. And he was not small.
One of the quickest players of the mark with a moderate top speed was Faffa Knoetze from WP.
@Umgodoyi: Another sprinter wing was Andre Hickson for WP, played SA Schools in 1985:
Hickson, André – (Bosmansdam) – WP – 1985
Also Herman Venske:
Venske, Herman – (Vanderbijlpark) – GL – 1979
@Djou: Djou, jy is reg ivm Andre Venter:
Venter, André – (Grey College) – FS – 1990-91 (1989 for Monnas)
@BoishaaiPa:
Namate ek ‘groter’ begin word het was dit my beweeglikheid wat my aan die ‘pen’ laat ry het.
Ek het ook baie gesukkel met ‘styfheid’ gedurende wedstryde,……..maar moeilik om soepel te raak as mens so ‘groot’ is.
O ja…..het darem 2 SAU’s ook gespeel………….Grahamstad en Bloem
@meadows: Halliday was “athletically” big and muscular without being too heavy. He was also explosive off the mark, so without being timed really quick over 40m. Don’t ever remember him EVER being caught from behind whether over 5, 10, 20, 40 or more metres, but certainly remember him catching many from behind and from almost any distance. And he was a great tackler and defender, which in those days was fairly rare for a winger. (What the professional era has improved a lot is this aspect of the game). I think his best times were about 10.3 and less than 21 over the two distances.
@Grasshopper: Not sure about how many schoolboys – I was referring to guys at U19 & U21 level. Some of the youngsters who came through the Lions juniors like 2007 SA Schools wing Riaan Arendse and the other wing in the U19 side in ’08 Blake Mecuur who made the SA schools B side were in that league as I’m sure is Anthony Volminck – the only one still playing senior rugby.
@beet: The late Liam Kirkham was very fast and he had incredible acceleration. An old mate – sadly no longer with us.
Some of the guys I remember:
Jaco Reinach was pretty quick. Also remember McCann – he had wheels. Pieter Hendricks was by no means a small guy but he had toe. So too did Tony Watson. Liaan Kirkham was one of the first players I admired when I first started playing rugby – back in the day he seemed very fast.
@Grasshopper: A player by the name of Hein, was selected for the FS Schools, but sadly injured at Bondedag. So, he wont be going to CW. But, I hear that he is the second fastest ever over 40 m. I think that you can read about him at School of Rugby
@Andre T: En daar is nog n bewys dat selfs die SA Skole tennis keurders dit verkeerd kan kry…as ek dit nie mis het nie het daai manne almal pro tennis spelers geword terwyl jy Pniel se pro geword het!…
@meadows: I agree with you, Brent Russell as an example over 40m must have been immense. However, I don’t think there are too many school boys running 10.5! That is seriously quick and more likely doing athletics full time instead of rugby….10.5 would be most schools record…
@meadows:
A well informed person gave me the reason for the 1971 starting point:
“Everybody get their stats from the rugby annuals. Quintus van Rooyen who started it in 1971(That is why the stats starts in 1971) was the custodian of the Annual up to 1996”
@Andre T: Ja maar dit tel nie as jy drie jaar in Graad 1 was nie.
@Andre T: Het jy nooit teen Kepler Wessels te staan gekom nie?Hy was mos “Appletiser” SA kampioen, maar as ek moet skat, so 4 jaar jonger as jy
Ek het van st 6 tot matriek CW Skole tennis gespeel en 3 jaar SA Skole.
Nie eers Johan Kriek, Kevin Curren, Wayne Ferreira of Kevin Anderson kon dit vermag.
@Umgodoyi: You are quite right – Mike Halliday from Kearsney did go on to play for the US Eagles.
The problem with 100 and 200m times as a measure of speed on the rugby field IMO is that in rugby explosive speed over 40m is more critical than “top end”. These day there are many juniors wings coming through at U19 & U21 level who have run a 10.5 100m but their ability to translate that into effective pace on the field can differ significantly. I remember John Kirwan the great NZ wing saying a little while ago that he would be considered far too slow to play wing today as his fastest time over 100m was only 11.2.
@Roger: perhaps Mike Halliday in the Natal teams of 71 and 72 was quicker as I think he also won his age group U17 and U18 National 100m and 200m titles in both those years. After National Service he became a chiropractor in the US and I think played rugby for the US Eagles.
@Buitebreek: Nee, nie gepost nie – het een jaar herhaal.
@Slinger: Het Brendan Venter se broer, Andre, nie ook 3 jaar SA Skole gespeel nie – een jaar by Monnas en 2 vanuit Grey Kollege.
@beet: Beet, it is quite possible that there were no “finals” prior to ’71. For the same reason that an SA Schools side was picked for the first time in ’74, Danie Craven was vehemently opposed to Craven Week becoming either a competition or trials for picking an SA Schools team. He wanted it to retain it’s festival nature. Frankly I suspect that if he were still alive he would have been abhorred by developments in schools rugby.
Ahead of the first Craven Week in ’64 he said;
“The Board wants the game played in the right spirit. That includes: attacking, adventurous, open, constructive rugby, without regard to result, and without deviating from the game. If our schoolboys can be imbued with such a spirit, it will seep through to our national approach, to the advantage of all.”
It is interesting to see that he was not concerned about the results as well as what he thought was good for the national game at a schoolboy level in the context of recent discussions about increasing professionalism and focus on low risk rugby by schools, to the detriment of skills development, under pressure to produce winning seasons.
Bly om te sien die stats word kort en kragtig gehou
Nie daai opstel tipe weergawes wat mens vaak maak
O ja ou Bog…….Suarez gaan nou in sy rusperiode my kom help by die coffee shop…………hy gaan die nuwe disse wat ek maak kom proe……..dit is ook deel van sy rehabilitasie……….sy dokter meen as hy eerder proe as hap kan dit sy bytgewoontes verbeter.
Suarez het na die tyd in die kleedkamer vir ons gese die Italianer het een of ander origanum of Regina reuk aan hom gehad wat lekker geruik het.
@slinger: Twyfel of jy sommer meer sal kry…
Probeer die:
http://www.rugby15.co.za/2012/11/sa-schools-rugby-players-1974-2012/
Slinger, prober die site:
http://www.rugby15.co.za/2012/11/sa-schools-rugby-players-1974-2012/
@Babbelas: @BoishaaiPa: @BoishaaiPa: dankie manne, lekker om die akkurate stats te kry. Dus het 1988 se Vrystaat Cravenweek span 6 Bokke opgelewer (Franco Smith by Grey 5). Saam Blom 7 internationale spelers.
Hier is nog n vraag, watter CW span en jaar het die meeste Bokke nog opgelewer? Enige een meer as 88 FS span?
Sorry Campbell-McGeachy, Walter , only 2 years!
Danie was 19 in matriek en ek vermoed Jan (Boel) Serfontein ook!
@slinger: Slinger, only 3:
Campbell-McGeachy, Walter – (Pietersburg) – Far North – 1994-95
Gerber,* Danie – (Despatch) – EP – 1975-77 (Springbok)
Serfontein,* Jan – (Otto du Plessis) – EP – 1976-78
Kobus Burger 2 years:
Burger, Kobus – (Paarl Gimnasium) – WP – 1980-81 (Springbok)
@BuiteBreek: Grey is mos almal so bietjie vooruit!…
@BoishaaiPa: Ter versagtend, daardie mannetjies is om en by gebore toe ek in matriek was.
@BoishaaiPa: Dankie, my drade was dan nog meer gekruis as wat ek vermoed het. Jou double Red Heart is oppad, maar wees versigtig. Die laaste ou wie deur Andre T “gemotiveer” is, het n opponent gebyt en is vir 9 wedstryde geskors.
@BoishaaiPa: Het Helgard gepost?
@BOG: Hier is wat ek gekry het..
’88 – 5 Bokke en 1 Internasional
Ruben, Naka, Charl Marais, Fuls, Pieter Muller. Plus Andre Blom vir USA Rugby
’87 – net Pieter Muller en Ruben (altwee std 9)
’81 – Helgardt, (Gerbrand Grobler – junior Bok). Jaco Reinach was ’80 in matriek en Helgardt was 2 keer in matriek
Dus was dit die 88 groep wat 5 Bokke produce het.
@BuiteBreek: Kobus het 2 jaar gespeel – jy is reg. Hy was in sy eerste jaar nog onder 16: het in Matriek 17 geword. Danie en Jan snr het 3 jaar gespeel.
@BOG: Ek het nie Grey se stats so op my vingerpunte nie, maar het navraag gedoen en sal jou laat weet.
Buitebreek is reg met stats!..
@seabass: As I said, the 85 one was from Stanger. Wasn’t sure which one you were talking about.
@slinger: As ek reg onthou het Kobus net 2jaar gespeel. Sover ek weet het Danie Gerber, Jan Serfontein Sr en Paul Lindsey 3 jaar gespeel.
@BoishaaiPa: How many schoolboys played 3 years SA schools? know Kobus Burger one, but think there was 3 or 4?
@All Black: checked the record books, Leon van Rooyen that played CW in ’87 was from Estcourt
IBOG: I only know about the 1988 side who produced 5 Boks.
@seabass: Leon Van Rooyen of 85 was from Stanger.
@BoishaaiPa: I did not know that, thanks! Another one for the father/son books. Think he’s also in the running for SA schools this year but as we know there are a number of great loosies around. It all comes down to performance at the CW, not just individual but as a team. The bulk of the SA team always seem to come from the 4 top teams at the CW.
@BOG:
Hy drink deesdae singles
@BoishaaiPa: Ek sal vir AT vra om vir jou n double Red Heart te koop vir die gunsie wanneer julle weer bymekaarkom daaronder. Hy het mos gereeld n afspraak met jou
@BoishaaiPa: I obviously have my wires crossed, because I was convinced that it was the 1981 and 87 Grey sides which each produced 5 Springboks. With all the stats at your finger tips, can you perhaps confirm which sides they were and the players in each, who became Springboks
@Gungets Tuft: The ’86 Grey fullback is a friend of mine and sometimes follows this blog as well. He has a good memory and most of those games on tape at home!
@slinger: Did you know that the 86 Gim and SA Schools Player Ernst (Iepie) Van Niekerk is the father of the current Grey PE captain Johan?..If I remember correctly het went to Gim in St 7 or 8 from Brandwag Uitenhage.
@BuffelsCM: I would love to see the Academy side vs the Craven Week side….
@Grasshopper: I heard that – a massive score for a 2nd day of a provincial tournament!
@BuffelsCM: I think KZN Academy won 61-12 over EP Academy…
@beet: Doc Craven actually attended those first few, not sure about others. My uncle mentioned he was picked in the Doc Craven team of the week in 65….
@Grasshopper: I have no idea. Perhaps they did not have “finals” for the first few years???
@slinger: WP vs winners of KZN and EP at the Academy Week I guess
@Grasshopper: Whiteley, to me at least, should be a Bok, and I rate him above Kanko on current form.
@Roger: Simon Berridge wasn’t too slow himself…
@Roger: The Lions captained by a Glenwood Old Boy, Warren Whiteley. I remember a year ago people saying how average Whiteley was and that Kanko was better etc, I wonder if they have changed their minds now……he is also in the SA Sevens team for the Commonwealth Games….
@beet: Dad who was a DHS boy said that Dennis Baronet was the best centre he had ever seen play KZN schools, very quick too. His brother Trevor Baronet still holds the Glenwood 100m record of 10.59 on grass!
Where is 1964 to 1971, as I believe Craven Week started in 1964. My uncle played both 64 and 65…
@BuffelsCM: Great win for WP! So Bulls / WP final? And the u18 academy week?
@Vleis: And I heard that the Lions were leading 11 – 0 at the break! A great fight back by Province !
Free State 1988 team (also Grey 1st team). Played in 1988 cravenweek final against WP. Phoned a friend to get details
15 Pieter Muller (Springbok)
14 Jannie Strydom
13 Steph Venter
12 Heinrich Fuls (Springbok)
11 Andre Blom
10 Pieta Steenkamp
9 Jannie Momberg (ex Paul Roos boy)
8 Eksteen Enslin
7 Ruben Kruger (Springbok)
6 Naka Drotske (Springbok)
5 Tom Ferreira
4 Esmond van Niekerk
3 Charl Marais (Springbok)
2 Riaan Mey
1 Johan Rademan
Reserve: 16 Franco Smith (Springbok one of only two non Grey boys in team)
6 Springboks from one CW team
Interesting, the centre Steph Venter son is this year’s WP Cravenweek centre and captain.
@Vleis: hmmm – WP must have a strong U16 age-group because the combined Jeppe/Monnas Lions team is very good.
Capricorn is/was Boys only I thought? Gavin Johnson’s alma mater
@Roger: No, for some reason we never played against Jeppe or the private schools. We played mostly co-ed schools, plus some boys schools like KES, Parktown, Highlands North, Potch (rarely), Capricorn (or was that co-ed?) and the odd one on tour to Natal.
Speaking of Jeppe, I believe that Jeppe boys scored all of the Lions u16’s points in their 22 – 11 loss to WP today.
also very nice to see the Lions making the last three finals – if the Union could hang onto all these players we could shortly be returning to the glory days of the nineties! They just need to learn to win a final now
Surprised at how poor KZN’s record at Craven Week is
@All Black: College gave KES a smack at Saints Week in ’85 too – funnily enough, KES played College, Hilton and Michaelhouse at Saints Week in ’85 and lost heavily to Michaelhouse and College but drilled Hilton
1985 SA Schools team – Warren McCann – was there ever a faster schoolboy rugby winger? Man alive – he could shift.
@Vleis: did you ever play against him – he made James Small look slow!
Ta href=”#comment-59487″>beet: Think Joepie vd Merwe also played SA schools, also Grey boy, can be wrong but think he was the captain as well. Long time ago so have rattle the brains.
@Vleis: Yes I believe 81 and 88 some of the best Grey teams in that era, actually all time. No Grey first team produced more SA schools players than 81 and no Grey 1st team produced more springboks than 88. I’m under correction but think the records still stand for any school, not just Grey. That is why I remember it so well.
@BOG: It was 88 and Charl Marais was the captain. You correct about Hansie in 87 but the big Springbok factory was 88.
@seabass: That unofficial match was in 1986, Gert Maritz Festival, during cricket season. 1987 was the first official fixture, on Goldstones. Score 31-15. My oracle Tony Wiblin reported … “Incidentally, in 1987 College was missing four players and Westville two, because SA Schools played a match that day. That year there were eight Natal boys in the SA Schools team of nineteen (four reserves) – the other two were from Voortrekker and Estcourt (van Rooyen?). That match against Westville was an “extra” fixture, tagged on at the end of the season, at Westville’s request. No games other than the First XV match were played against Westville that day. The first full round of fixtures occured in 1988″
1986 produced 6 Natal Schools reps in BW Catterall, RD Dolbey, AW Gilson (Capt), UH Goedeke, JRD Thomson, WG Wilson. Jeremy Thompson went on to Natal Schools., 3 of that team played SA Schools the following year. Golden period for College.
@slinger: I know one of the players of that ’81 GCB 1st team. Per his facebook page, the ’81 side was as follows:
Gerbrand Grobler (15); Wimpie Burger (14); Helgard Muller (13); Andre Greyling (12); Leon Botha (11); Scheepers Gouws (10); Conrad de Beer/Tabo Thomas (9); PW Michau (8); Francois Swanepoel (7); Skalla v Schalkwyk (6); Wouter du Toit (5); Anthony Swart (4); Tommie Truscott (3); Joepie vd Merwe (2); Ockie du Toit (1).
I don’t think that they produced 5 Bokke – partly as the Bokke did not play much in those days…but they did produce the whole SA shools backline apart from the one wing. They won all their games, including beating Queens and Florida (who had the Bartman brothers and were Admin Trophy champs) by over 40 points.
@seabass: I think you are correct, Leon Van Rooyen was from Estcourt. I am not sure if it was his Estcourt side that beat Michaelhouse at Woodburn Stadium?
@slinger: It was the 1987 side which produced the 5 Springboks, if Im not mistaken- the ones you have listed there. Hansie was captain.@seabass: Another interesting fact is I heard Johan Goosen say that he actually went to GCB for cricket. I know that Allan Donald rated him as the fastest U14 bowler that he had seen and thought that he could make it internationally, if he had set his mind to it. Other FHs who are cricketers AB De Villiers and Lee Barnard who played provincial level for TVL at cricket and rugby
@slinger: the SAS 1981 database could do with a bit of help as well in terms of retrieving names:
Wessel Lightfoot Diamantveld
Wahl Bartmann Florida
Leon Botha Grey College
Conrad De Beer Grey College
Scheepers Gouws Grey College
Andre Greyling Grey College
Gerbrand Grobler Grey College
Helgard Müller Grey College
Lukas Grobler Hugenote HS
CP Van der Walt Piet Potgieter
Nico Van Rooyen Rustenburg
Robert Walker St Johns
Andries Engelbrecht Volkskool
Stephan Van Coller Volkskool
Kierie Barnard Volkskool Potch
Kobus Burger Paarl Gim
@seabass: Insert Peter Kirsten
@BOG: As per my post earlier, 1988 had 5 springboks, not sure about 1981 and 1987 but think you wrong. 1981 the entire Grey backline played SA schools except for their 1 wing. Kobus Burger from Gim was the other wing. Only Springboks I can recall from 1981 was Jaco Reinach and Helgard Muller. Only Springboks I can recall from 1987 was Ruben Kruger? Who was the others you mentioned?
@beet: Estcourt High School, think he was genuinely warded the “freedom of the town” a few years after…
@seabass: Was Leon van Rooyen one of those van Rooyen brothers who played for Empangeni?
Tbeet: Think you might be right, repeat of the age group final at Grant Khomo 2 years ago, WP narrowly beating the Cheetahs in the unofficial final.
@Cappie: @Tjoppa: @Rugger fan:
Okay I fixed the Golden Lions problem. Just like the Pumas issue it was caused by a space after the words in the text field of some causing the pivot table to read them as different names.
@BOG: endless list of top cricketers that played flyhalf … Kallis, Gibbs, Boje, Benkenstein, De Villiers come to mind and I know there is plenty more!
@BOG: @All Black: Think the most Grey boys in a Cravenweek side was in 1988, 18 if I’m correct. The entire Grey team 1-15 played in the CW final vs WP. Lost and a few weeks later played against Paarl Gim and game was a draw 9-9.
Remarkable, the 1988 Grey team was not just nr 1-15 at the Cravenweek but produced 5 Springboks from the Grey 1 first team, never to be repeated again. Ruben Kruger, Naka Drotske, Charl Marais, Heinrich Fuls and Pieter Muller.
@seabass: I am not sure about 1987, but am aware of Westville beating a College 2nd/3rd team in 1984 at Woodburn Stadium in a pre-season warm up game.
@Rugger fan: actually, may have been in ’86, maybe, one of the bloggers from that era can help…
Just an observation or useless information. In 1981 and 1987, Free State did not play in the “final”, yet both of those Grey teams produced 5 Springboks each, and the 1987 side captained by the future SA cricket captain, Hansie Cronje. Around 1984, GCB lost in two successive yrs to Queens, where Darryl Cullinan was the instrument of their demise.
@Rugger fan: remember that game so well… three Westville boys in that team (Hawley, Stewart, Falkson). Also Leon van Rooyen was the schoolboy prodigy at fullback. James Small was the opposing fullback. Hawley and Stewart got selected for SA Schools that year. BTW Westville beat College that year in an “unofficial” match so was not recorded in the history books.
Actually – I now see Golden Lions are in twice (8th spot and 3rd spot) – what is the difference?
Just a correction – the 1987 final was a 22 all draw – so in the table up above – Transvaal/Golden Lions should have 2 losses and 1 draw – not 3 losses.
@Cappie: The Afrikaans schools is at 3 and the English schools cw is at 8.
@beet: Why is the Golden Lions twice on the list? At nr 3 and again at nr 8.
@beet: The late Shaun Gage played SA Schools in 1984 from DHS. He had left school in 1985. A hugely talented player who would have made a serious impact on the international stage if it had not been for his untimely demise.
@Vleis: College beat Bishops in the ‘final’ of Saints week 44-0. Hilton lost quite a few games that year but gave College a huge fright. College were down 17-6 at one stage after an intercept try. Final score 20-17. College lost 1 game in 1984 against Queens 15-13. A missed penalty at the death would have given College two unbeaten seasons in a row.
@All Black: That ’85 College side was power. I think they beat GCB 9 to 0. They had a number of great players like Joel Stransky, Jeremy Thompson, etc. I remember watching them at the Saints festival where they hammered all their opponents. That said, SBR was a lot closer in those days. A good mate who played for the Hilton and Natal CW team in ’85 maintains that they lost to a last minute penalty by Stransky…or something similar.
@beet: Pieter De Haas and Henk Prinsloo are not in your list. I have the program somewhere. Not sure of the other Grey player to make up the 6.
Some of the 1990 players I remember are
Errol Fynn, Wayne Fyvie, Hentie Martens, Chris Beukes, Frank Goedeke (who I think was originally a College boy but went to Carter), Brett Davidson, Bruce Collyer
@Gungets Tuft: No I’m looking for the Natal Schools teams. I look forward to receiving your email after you get in touch with BW Catterall (Capt), UH Goedeke, DAG Reed, WG Wilson.
@beet: 1987 had 4 College boys in the SA Schools side, BW Catterall (Capt), UH Goedeke, DAG Reed, WG Wilson.
Have sent you a spreadsheet of all the SA Schools reps from 1974 – 2013 – you will have to manhandle it yourself, bit busy esor …
Edit – Sorry, see you said Natal Schools. 1987 College reps for Natal were BW Catterall (Capt), AJ Godfrey, UH Goedeke, DAG Reed, ID Vynne, WG Wilson.
1990 was just RB Collyer
Also anyone who has the Natal Schools teams of 1987 and 1990, please email me beetb@telkomsa.net
@Cappie: @All Black:
I have these 17 names from SA Schools 1985. Would be grateful for the names of the missing Greystaters
Baronet, Dennis Glenwood
Campher, Connie Potchefstroom THS
Cronjé, Frans Grey College
Davel, Chris Hoërskool Ermelo
Du Plessis, Johan Sand du Plessis
Du Preez, Fransie EG Jansen
Espag, Jaco Witbank THS
Gage, Shaun DHS
Glover, Shaun Maritzburg Coll
Hickson, André Bosmansdam
Loest, Gary Queens Coll
Maherry, Chet Grey College
McCann, Warren Jeppe BH
Pienaar, Francois Patriot Witbank
Reingold, Jeremy Constantia
Steenkamp, Buks Grey College
Van Niekerk, Niekie De Wet Nel THS
Zaltsman, Neil Northlands
@Cappie: 3 GCB players made SA Schools in ’85. I stand corrected, but I think back then the SA Schools team played games only at the end of the year.
@Cappie: Full squad played against College. The SA Schools side played the week before. College had 1 player and Grey had 6. They played against the SA Defence u20 team. For many of the Grey players it was the first game they had ever lost in their rugby careers.
@Cappie: The winning recipe- 1) Skill; 2) Skill and 3) Skill. That is what wins matches. And yes, here I go again. More than 10 yrs ago, Brendon Venter identified skill as the biggest challenge for SBR in SA. He made two exceptions-GCB being one of them.
@All Black: How many of the Grey players played against Maritzburg of those that played Craven Week? Weren’t a number of them in the National squad after they won Craven Week? Cohesion and teamwork play a major role in the team’s success, hence the Free State’s high winning rate. Very interesting stat though.
Some useless information. In 1985 Free State won Craven Week with 17 Grey players out of the 20 man squad. A few weeks later, Grey lost to Maritzburg College. You never know in rugby.
Initially I believed that WP and the Blue Bulls were the favourites to make this 2014 unofficial final but based on the Bondedag result, Free State who actually shouldn’t ever be underrated but who last played in the final in 2011, are now my pick ahead of the Bulls to make the final.
That would mean the top two best performers in CW history once again battling it out for honours, the first time since that amazing game in 2009. Lots of hard work for both to get there tho.
@LAEVELDER: Thanks. I fixed it.
See Pumas twice there 6 & 15