Grant Khomo, the annual youth week provincial tournament for under-16’s is at TUT in Pretoria this year and starts on Monday 7 July.
The good news is there should be no shortage of talented rugby players on display and some good matches lie ahead.
The bad news is the event is also expected to the biggest gathering of the who’s who of the big shoppers.
The big shoppers being those big spending schools that see nothing wrong with the practice of using attractive financial offers to poach good rugby players from their existing schools. Schools from Kwazulu-Natal and Pretoria top the list of big shoppers these days. They tend to make the biggest and best buys in their desperation to compensate for their fails to develop their own players, eagerness to accept the win at all costs culture or just remain competitive.
The strategy employed by various schools is to send representatives to Grant Khomo Week, identity talented players preferably from poorer backgrounds and attending school either poorer or out of the limelight schools and then put irresistible offers on the table while wowing the players plus parents with talk of better opportunities and simultaneously encouraging them to remain “tjoepstil” until the deal/move is concluded. It’s not uncommon for false promises go hand in hand with these types of negotiations. Statistically there is still no evidence to suggest that a player will go further in rugby after school if he switches from one school to another. In fact so many players from so called non-mainstream schools are still becoming Springboks that one cannot help but wonder whether the increased emphasis on rugby training at school level plays any part in success after school at all.
Since no player at Grant Khomo is ever on sale as far as the school that helped him reach this goal is concerned, sending boys to the tournament is increasingly placing these schools in a vulnerable position. Selection for Grant Khomo Week is meant to be a celebration of the achievements of both the player and his school’s coaching efforts but it now stands an ever increasing risk of backfiring with the school losing more than it ever hoped to gain once their star player gets noticed at Grant Khomo Week and poached.
Day 1 Fixtures:
| DAY | DATE | TIME | TEAM | TEAM | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 10h00 | Western Province | Border | ||
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 10h00 | Valke | Griffons | ||
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 11h15 | KwaZulu-Natal | Golden Lions | ||
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 11h15 | Blue Bulls XV | Border CD | ||
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 12h30 | Eastern Province | Free State | ||
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 12h30 | Griquas | Zimbabwe | ||
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 13h45 | Boland | Pumas | ||
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 13h45 | Griquas CD | Leopards | ||
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 16h00 | Blue Bulls | SWD | ||
| 1 | 07/07/2014 | 16h00 | Namibia | Limpopo Blue Bulls |
@Predator: In all the comments I have read in this blog this is the most apt and enlightening. It should always be about the kid and not the school and school boy rugby results. Predator you have enormous respect form me. Too often it is about the school, the coach and the parent wanting this or that but in reality it is the kid who in ten years time is left to deal with this fallout. They were coerced into spending too much time dedicated to sport rather than focus not their careers. Ten years down the track they have to deal with the compromise they made with academics. Why are those lessor athletes in better management positions etc etc. Too few parents and schools act in the best interests of their kids. life begins after school and playing first team rugby does not get you far after school.
Well Done Predator, I wish many of these bloggers would consider what you have done and curb their over zealous enthusiasm for school rugby as it does not help the kids.
@Gungets Tuft:
@beet: Eeisch, all I heard was shackles being dragged, I knew that a “recruiter” in England had sent them somewhere.
Interesting. There is a Scots College in Wellington, NZ. The Scots College at this year’s Easter festival was from Sydney, Australia.
@NW_Knight: given the strength of the All Blacks, I feel more sorry for SA Rugby. We have this wealth of talent up the U18, then ….
But New Zealand is not immune to the issues of payment, poaching, player moves. It’s all already been hashed here.
If anything it’s a cautionary tale about rugby as a career, especially in SA but probably everywhere.
@meadows: Got to feel sorry for NZ rugby then – Scots College were well beaten by everyone except St Johns at the St Johns Easter Festival
@McCulleys Workshop: K – you lost me there.
@GreenBlooded: I would eliminate all schools with heads with PHD’s or MBA’s, especially if they are heads of very large schools. (Large schools with 2000 plus black pupils don’t really count)
@GreenBlooded:
@star: I think a good starting point for this would be to suss out the schools who’s headmasters avoided facing the music at the Headmasters Conference.
@ @ Beet- ” the bad news is that the event is also expected to be the biggest gathering of the who’s who of the big shoppers” To bring closure to this issue is it possible to have a list of the worst culprits. ( a top 10 that AT would be proud to call his own :mrgreen:)
@meadows: Interesting article!
It seems that the scholarship issue is not unique to SA schools rugby. Here are some extracts from an article in Australia quoting Nick Farr-Jones after his old school Newington were beaten by 100pts by another private school. Scots College.
“Wallabies great and NSW Rugby chairman Nick Farr-Jones has questioned the future of the elite GPS sports competition, in light of the 101-nil thrashing of Newington College by former close rival Scots.
Farr-Jones said drastic change was needed to Sydney’s most prestigious schools association to protect boys from harm and to stop such mismatches. Private schools should also cap the number of athletes on lucrative sports scholarships to ensure a level playing field, he added.
“I don’t like mismatches,” he said. “I don’t think it builds character. I don’t think it is good for anyone. My major concern is safety. If there are significant weight and strength differences then there are safety issues and we have to be careful of that.”
“We need to look at a better way of doing things … so we do have matches that participants enjoy playing and parents enjoy watching.”
Schools should also restrict the awarding of controversial sports scholarships to about 20 per cent of players in any particular team, Farr-Jones added.
This month, The Scots College withdrew a new student recently recruited from Canada from its snowsports team, after claims from rival schools that he was ineligible to compete. The 14-year-old athlete, who was brought in by Scots after competing in the northern hemisphere, won individual gold at the Sydney Interschools Championships.
In an email to parents, Scots insisted the boy was eligible to compete but acknowledged the “perception … that it could open the way for other schools in years following to invite numbers of international athletes to compete for them … to the possible detriment of Australian athletes”.
Last Saturday’s result between Scots and Newington, co-winners of the 2013 season, has reignited concerns within the GPS. “Any scoreline which is massively unbalanced diminishes the educational value of the experience,” said The King’s School headmaster Timothy Hawkes.
Scots first XV has piled on 287 points in the first four rounds of this season. Against Newington, Scots players scored 15 tries in a performance one parent said “was like watching the All Blacks, it was so beautifully put together”.
The growing disparity between some teams in the GPS has seen Sydney Grammar and Sydney Boys High withdraw from the top-level rugby competition, citing safety fears for their smaller players. Farr-Jones, a Newington old boy, suggested other schools could follow suit. Former Wallabies player Phil Kearns, who also went to Newington, said such lopsided results were not great for the game. He suggested that one option for schools to consider was an “all or nothing approach, where you can have as many scholarships as you want or none at all”. “
@Tjoppa: Nee Tjoppa MikeSt is Hendre(5 slot EG) se pa altwee Ysters . Ek dink MikeSt word baie keer verkeerd opgesom agv sy standpunte , maar dis net omdat hy so pasievolle mens is en alles wat hy doen , doen hy voluit. Ek het koffie gedrink saam Deon Holtzhausen .
@scrummie: We can only dream, hey.
Think the schools that take these players should also be named and blame. As long as schools are willing to accommodate these players the scouts will continue to recruit. But yes this will never happen cause as long as a coach/school can have cravenweek players coming from their team then its better for them I suppose. Hopefully one day schools will say NO to taking in players from scouts representing a union.
@badboy: We will see more of these in future, and I’m afraid the more intense these get, the more violent these ‘altercations’ will become. Now that my cry for ‘hands off kids under the age of 18’ is an unrealistic conclusion, let me propose the following ‘realistic’ approach: Scouts should rather go via parents/schools when interested in a player and not approach a boy. If my limited knowledge of law is anything to go by, a 16 year old cannot sign a contract anyway. They can only sign as a witness to a Will.
But ja, to quote Gungets….”Laws only create loopholes”…ain’t that the truth!
@badboy – Okay thanks. Suprised they did not speak to the flyhalf from Border.
The two Border boys I was speaking about was at the Grant Khomo week I hear it was a centre and a wing from Queens who had been approached and the altercation was between a QC old boy and the Bulls scout.
What a shocker looks like another Fortuin story happening here.
@Patat70706: Dink nie dis hy nie het n klomp emails gekry oor die persoon. Die net is besig om kleiner en kleiner te span……………..
@MikeSt: Dit sal kan werk.
Wonder of hy dit nie dalk sal geniet nie.
Klink soos daardie tipe mens.
@Patat70706: Patat ek hoop dis wie ek dink dit is. Gaan n lang arm in sy keel afdruk.
Jy kan my email by mikes@kaufelastaffing.co.za
@MikeSt: Ek dink jy moet my kontak.
Het uitgevind wie BOXKICK is.
dit is ‘n onderwyser van die Valke Makro Hoërskool ……………….
Sal jou al die details gee.
@Tjoppa: verkeerd Tjoppa en ek vat dit nogal as n insult
dat my seun met so n ass—hole vergelyk word. 
@TW BOSS: Ek dink boxkick is mos die pa van die lang mannetjie van EG Jansen. As ek dit nou nie verkeerd het nie. As ek so na sy laaitie se spel kyk dink ek aardjie na sy vaartjie. Die yster lyk nie of hy enige nonsies van enigiemand vat nie. Ek glo hy sal bietjie bedaar as hy ‘n rukkie langer op die blog is en meer mense praat met hom.
@boxkick: R100 vir jou Boxkick
.
Soos ek reeds geskryf het kry die feite en hou op spekileer Box.
With all the recruiting going on, is it any wonder that the major complaint about the rugby being played is that they are not performing as teams. It’s standard fare for trials – I often heard parents, even at intra-school trials, telling their boys to make sure they got noticed, it was not a team game yet. It’s the way it is I suppose – just still staggered to think that parents would allow their boys to be shunted between schools in Grade 11. I remember hearing a boy, in grade 9, talk about someone leaving for rugby saying “we will be friends, but never brothers”.
@scrummie:
That 12 that scored four tries is on his way to Paarl Boys High…I think the Bulls scouts had coffee and biscuits with Morgan and that other centre from Grens.
I see Duhan van Van der Merwe is back with the Bulls Under 19’s.
@BuiteBreek: Goeie een Buitebreek
@Muzi – If I remember correctly the 12 from Border will be going to somewhere else, so then it must be the other centre from todays game, think he is from Grens. This is really a circus.
@mikest – try die stoel hypocrite…dis baie gemakliker…
@BuiteBreek – lag ek nou my gat af……classic een om te onthou daai
@scrummie: It’s probably Werner de Beer…or even Xander Janse Van Rensburg….I wouldn’t be surprised it those two players were Morgan Steyn or one of those two talented centres that played today….those blokes from Border must be gatvol with the Bills poaching their players and I don’t blame them.
@boxkick: @MikeSt: Gedagte vir die dag: Dis eers as ‘n muskiet op jou knaters sit, dat jy besef probleme kan sonder geweld opgelos word.
@BOG: Dankie Bog, ek besef ons deel sentimente oor kinders wat benadeel word. Wat ek gesê het is ongelukkig feite, en dis jammer, want ek het die Sir as ‘n persoonlike held gesien. Hy bly beslis geniaal, en hy het reuse positiewe bydraes tot die samelewing gemaak wat mens nie mag miskyk nie. Uys Krige se briewe se briewe uit Europa aan sy ouers, broer en familie maak ook gedurig melding van sy besoeke daar aan die Sir, hulle was close vriende. Uys se briewe maak ook melding van sbr, spesifiek die wedstryde tussen PRG, SACS en Bishops in 1932, asook die betrokke sbr afrigter. Miskien, in die tye wat Uys by Laurens gewoon het, het hulle GCB, PRG en sbr bespreek???? Ons sal nooit weet nie, maar as mens Uys se briewe lees, besef mens hy was ook maar ‘n “amoreuse” knaap.
@boxkick: Sit dit op die tafel jou lafaard………….
@mikest – jy is my trophy tjom…
@badboy , I hope the BB scout got klapped a few times !!!!. This poaching/recruitment/buying will surelly be a very very good Carte Blanche episode …, should make that episode 2+ hours.
@boxkick: My donner jy het kry vir jou n Oscar jou aap
@Deon: Dankie vir daardie inligting. Ek weet maar min, behalwe dit wat ek hierbo gese het. As hy dit gedoen het wat jy gese het, dan verdien hy inderdaad om met sy gat in die tronk te sit. Soos jy, is ek al baie jare betrokke by die sorg van getraumatiseerde en verwaarloosde kinders en as jy my briesend wil he, dan moet jy die onskuldige vertroue van n kind, skend. Oor die jare, moes ek al baie hartseer en gebroke kinders aanskou en ek weet wat dit verg om heling te bring.
I hear things got very heated between the Blue Bulls scout and some folks from a Border school after two backline players were being targeted the other day.
@mikest – DIE konfrontasie ding is deur jou begin met jou eerste post pal….dis nou tipies die reaksie wat ek van jou verwag het…jy is seker ook tjommas met daai ou (coach) wat die ref VAN AGTER AF geskouer het…by EGJ moer ons mos n ding wat nie volgens ons reg is nie…terloops, ek is die ou wat sopas jou ware kleure na vore gebring het…HAHAHAHA!!!!!!
@boxkick: jy is duidelik besig om konfrontasie te probeer ontlok. Hou eerder maar daai bekkie van jou heel terwyl hy nog heel is.
Dalk moet jy maar op die tafel sit wie en wat jy is ou grote…………………
@BOG: Ek glo Sir Laurens sou nie ‘n baie positiewe siening gehad het oor plattelandse onderwys nie, maar ek twyfel ook of hy baie goed te sê gou gehad het oor onderwys in SA in geheel. Skole oral moet maar dit wat die Departement van Onderwys voorskryf, aanvaar, en daarop verbeter om ‘n aanvaarbare vlak van onderwys te bereik. Ek vermoed al die skole op hierdie blog verteenwoordig is suksesvol wat dit betref.
Wat die Sir self betref : My mening oor hom is nie belangrik nie, hy het nie ‘n onbekende soos ek se goedkeuring nodig nie. Ek besit ‘n eerste druk van The lost world of the Kalahari, waarop ek baie trots is.
Ek dink hy is ‘n eksepsionele skrywer wat ‘n eksepsionele nis gevind het. Maar die feit van die saak is ongelukkig dat hy ‘n bevestigde pedofiel was by alle definisies. As hy vandag nog geleef het sou hy in Polsmoor gesit en Cravenweek kyk het.
Almal het foute, maar om ‘n 14 jarige dogter wat in jou sorg geplaas is deur haar ouers, swanger te maak, en haar belowende balletloopbaan by onder andere die Royal School of Ballet te verongeluk, is ‘n bietjie te dik vir ‘n daalder, as jy my vra. Ek sou myself nie graag met hom wou assosieer nie.
En dit is geen refleksie op GCB nie.
@TWBOSS – Sien…nou maak dit heeltemaal sin…julle tweetjiies (jy en mikest) is die twee main manne by EGJ…mpho en mphonyane…julle is of op die staff of julle is die twee wat die geld gee…hoop nie dis die geld nie want kompetisie onder die rykes staan uit soos n puisie op n vark se gat en ALMAL sien dit raak…o wag…dan is daar JAKES ook…wonder waar val die man in die prentjie…is hy die ou wat die seuns uit koshuise gaan haal by ander skole – die ou wat die vuil werk doen terwyl julle tweetjies al die shine vang…klink my deonholt moet n lyfwag saamvat gelees aan die tone van jou post, jy klink na n gevaarlike mannetjie
@Djou: Jou taalkundige jou Google translator werk skitterend.
Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea.
Extra territorium jus dicenti impune non paretur – spesiaal vir boxwyn oh sorry boxkick.
אמן!
@Deon: En tog, het hy by elke geleentheid, die skool besoek. Mens moet darem in gedagte hou dat toe hy skool bygewoon het- dit sal jou moontlik verbaas, maar dit was n paar jaar voor my- was daar waarskynlik nog nie die tradisie en “ryke” geskiedenis wat daar nou is nie. Ek kan al die groot verskil sien tussen toe ek daar was en nou. Toe Sir Lourens op skool was, was daar nog kwaliteitsonderwys op die platteland. Wonder wat hy vandag sou se?
@BOG: Het jy al Laurens se mening oor die opvoeding wat hy op GCB ontvang het gelees? Ek stem beslis nie saam met wat hy gesê het nie, en dit was nie anders in GCB as in meeste ander skole in daardie tyd nie, maar Sir Laurens was beslis nie jou normale trotse OB nie.
@Deon: Ja Johannes is natuurlik n eg Britse naam. Toe hulle vir Prince Charles aan Koos vd Merwe voorgestel het as “Your highness”, het koos dit dadelik besef en gereageer: “My goodness, what a coincidence? Im also “Johannes” En deur OG, Sir Lourens (Laurence) VD Post, het die skool natuurlik n sterk verbintenis met die “Royals” Sir Lourens, was Prins Willempie ( toekomstige koning) se peetpa. So, ja, ek glo dat die verbintenis miskien vir jou as n verassing sal kom. Wil jy jou vraag wysig? Die skool hou nooit op om te verras nie, ne?
@Djou: Onthou, Afrikaans is ‘n dogtertaal van Nederlands, nie ‘n sustertaal soos Vlaams en Surinaams ( wat beide eintlik Nederlandse dialekte is) nie. Dis ‘n nuwe taal!!!! Vergeet eers van die Germaanse taal van die Anglo-Sakse (my eie ma is Nedersaks uit Duitsland) en dink aan die Celte uit die huidige België, om die gesprek rugbygerig te maak!!!! Kyk na Wallis se wapen op hulle rugbytrui, en hul leuse : Ich dien!!! Soos wat klink dit?
Wat was Shakespeare se regte voorname? Beslis nie William nie, maar Guiliamme Johannes. Johannes klink vir my of hy eerder vanaf GCB as Ingeland was!!! Maar ek wed sy politieke orientasie was meer modern en progressief as @BOG: s’n.
@Deon: Hallo, goed om weer van jou te hoor. Ja, so ‘n hele ruk gelede. Maar dit is interessant, want dit toon dat die konstruksie van meeste Engelse woorde, net soos die van Afrikaans, sy oorsprong elders het – en nie ‘n suiwer onafhanklike taal is, soos sommige mense dit wil he nie.
@Djou: For interest sake, English is not at all derived from Latin. It is a pure West-Germanic language, with exactly the same “roots” as Dutch and German. Ever had the opportunity to read Beowulf?
@boxkick: Boxkick , ek sien jy het nie al die feite mooi bymekaar , maar tog lewer jy kommentaar wat nie nodig is. Ek glo DeonHoltz sal na Donderdag wel al die feite he , aangesien ek die persoon is na wie hy verwys. Wat Mikest aanbetref , ons het vandag weer koffie gedrink by HTS Middelburg , waar die Valke op die A-veld gewen het.
@boxkick: Nee, bietjie op universiteit geleer!. English originated from latin, as you know. Maar ek hou van julle “quotes”. Dit is albei baie waar.
@Djou – google translate en n bietjie savi
@Mikest: @Boxkick: I prefer the latin. Mike, ask Beet to start a latin only thread?
For the other bloggers, freely translated:
Mikest: Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit = Constant practice devoted to one subject often outdoes both intelligence and skill.
Boxkick: Ut sementem feceris ita metes = You will reap what you sow!
@Deon: Is dit reg vertaal?
Predator. Thanks for the heads up and you are 100% right. As a matter of fact the competition is so tight these days, if one player exit the door, there will be another one waiting to enter. EGJ will cope and be ready to promote other players like they did before. In any case the coaches will rather want to work with boys who are team players who’s hearts and soul are with the school and their mates. In the end you win some, you loose some. Part of the rugby life..
@Predator: Predator. Thanks for the heads up and you are 100% right. As a matter of fact the competition is so tight these days, if one player exit the door, there will be another one waiting to enter. EGJ will cope and be ready to promote other players like they did before. In any case the coaches will rather want to work with boys who are team players who’s hearts and soul are with the school and their mates. In the end you win some, you loose some. Part of the rugby life..
@boxkick: With you as the orchestral director.
@mikest – I see a two man band and the music is shit….Ut sementem feceris ita metes
@Predator: Die formaat van die CW is van so n aard dat twee spanne wat op dieslfde dag speel nooi teen mekaar in die “finals” sal speel nie. Hulle kies altyd die onoorwonne span van Dag 1 en 3 vs Die onoorwonne span van dag 2 en 4…WP en SWD gaan mekaar dalk Woensdag weer pak …
@Predator: Agree and that’s why my last post mentioned to end this.
To all the EC Jansen bloggers,…. it is not the end of your rugby aspirations when you loose a player to another school, this will happen for ever and a day,..in fact it happens to everybody . It leaves the opportunity to get somebody else , or even better to develop one of the other players. This is a 15 man game that has more often than not seen the ” forgotten ” ones step up when the opportunity arises. It would also be nice to refrain from derogatory remarks,..lets just poke fun and take it on the chin also,.. this is about schoolboys and their schools we are referring to.
Looks like my prediction on a South / South final is on the cards.
Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit.
Ad finem………….
@boxkick: Pretty derogative statement calling someone a plank but then again hiding behind a nickname gives people a lot of guts and power………..
@boxkick: If you can see the band but not hear the music refrain from commenting…………..
@JAKES – It would seem you are somewhat at a disadvantage…this is a blog you plank…a place where people can have an opinion…if you don’t like what you read…then don’t read…if your parents are prepared to wash their laundry in public and others comment on it and open some wounds then so be it….if you don’t like it piss off and read the Springs Herald
Boxkick- I have read a lot of your comments before and it is very clear to me that you have a personal vendetta against EG Jansen for whatever reason. Why are you getting so emotional every time EG Jansen’s name is mentioned on this blog and why do you kEep on hammering on the same issue? As a matter of fact, why are you getting so involved with an issue between EG Jansen’s parents? Where do you fit into the picture and what are you trying to achieve? Or are you just one of those bloggers who’s only goal is to stir because you have nothing better to do?
@Gungets Tuft: @Boxkick: Guys, you are at the wrong thread. The “dubious recruitments” are now running on the Craven Week thread.
@boxkick: Here in KZN it’s quite important to get in a week or two of Grade 10, known to some as the Wright Gambit. 6 months is quite the luxury.
@Predator: Doesn’t bother me at all as long as I know who is being referred to. Would hate to miss a chance to take a shot when the opportunity presents. In fact, I reckon ou Beet should open the debate after the last schoolboy game this season, the argument should last till March next year. We could get down to discussing the relative merits of jukskei vs surfing as the tie-breaker, perhaps a yodel off at the end ….
@TWBOSS – Id invite Mikest for a coffee and discuss the name throwing thing with him as he is not doing you any favours…on the contrary he is the one slinging mud on a public forum
@mikest – I put to you that:
1. You confuse readers with regards to you inability to decide on which side of the fence you sit – you see on the one hand you say what does parents teach their kids….to leave before the job is done…bla bla bla, a direct jab at the parents and on the other hand you sing their praises.
2. If you had a meeting earlier that morning it must have been VERY early…the call was made at 07h33, based on Deonholz’s “coming clean” post with the facts, Id rather believe him than you. Seen as though its only July and the tour is at the end of the year as you put it, I am sure another kid could simply take that place, you have like a couple of months to get one after all.
3. I would seem Deonholtz was referring to people who were nice to them infront of them but couldn’t wait to stick it to them once it had become known that there is a move imminent…just saying…and from what I have seen on this blog, he has good reason to be disappointed in those people.
4. On your fourth point I cant really decide who’s side to take – purely because you could be right, but, who knows the reasons behind them having to move now as apposed to at the end of the year, there might be very valid reasoning behind it.
5. Well this one is quite simple – you rant and rave about schools poaching kids when your school does exactly the same…to the extent that you rock up at another school and take the kids out of their boarding establishment…GO FIGURE!!!!
6. From what I have seen here, you made out that they sent out a singular sms to whoever informing them that they are moving, when by their own admission they wrote on a whatsapp group where all the parents were members of that group…I don’t know how you intended that comment but maybe its the English thing…and I fully understand that with no disrespect meant.
7. Notwithstanding the fact that I agree with you on this one, the tone of your posts leaves me to assume that this is a very volatile issue and it was done with ill intend…if you know what I mean…
6.
@grasshopper – one thing is for sure….it aint EGJ. Helpmekaar has been “poaching” athletes from all over and has won the super inter athletics the past couple of years…
@BOG: Seems that the ” Super School ” term bothers some of the bloggers. I would refer to “the top ten schools” in future so that those that feel offended know which ones I refer to. If the shoe fits that year,… wear it,… if it does not then at least allow the others to enjoy their hard earned ranking.
@Grasshopper: We are one of the best. Kloof, Garsies, Affies, Monnas,Helpies are the big boys in Gauteng. Each school have kids that are outstanding. Eldo probably the best in hurdles and have the top junior girl in SA. She is U/15 but up there with the U/19’s. Has broken all her agegroup rekords.
@boxkick: I thought Eldoraigne was the best at athletics up that way…
@jakes – its still a case of the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me…no matter which way you cut it…you mean to tell me the “collected” kid doesn’t play rugby? and if he doesn’t, he is wasting his time as an athlete in EGJ…should go to Helpmekaar…lets face it, EGJ is not exactly the top athletics school around….or is it?
@jakes: again, how do you know if the parents didn’t approach Glenwood? The parents are instigators most of the time…
Grashopper/Boxkick–I also think their is a huge diffrence in morals when a school approach an athlete/rugby player before the season starts and built their season with current players as if when a school approach an athlete/rugby player at the end of the season to strenghten their teams for their bigger games. it is not the first article I have read where Glenwood approach students in the middle of the season and then field that players in the same year..
MikeST/Valke- weet nie of ek reg verstaan nie maar dit klink of die EG Jansen seun(s) eers hulle verpligtinge of seisoen by EG Jansen gaan klaar maak voordat hulle oorgaan Glenwood toe. Ek dink dit is ‘n baie goeie besluit indien dit wel waar is..Hulle moet darem op ‘n goeie voet weggaan van al sy vriende en die seisoen op ‘n goeie noot afsluit.( indien hule nie gelukkig is by Glenwood nie en wil terugkom) Dit sal ‘n groot bohaai opgeskop indien die seun(s) wel al die jaar vir Glenwood opgedraf het dink ek.
@deonholt:
Deon seeing that your posting is directed at em as well the following:
1. Not once did anyone say you a bad parent and please do go and read my postings again. I actually stated you are great parents in a posting.
2. The call on the year end overseas tour was a genuine call one as we had a meeting earlier that morning on the outstanding monies parents had to pay for the tour.
So NO money were requested from you even though you have confirmed your sons attendance and we have already paid the deposit to the value of R 7 500.00 to confirm flights and hotels.
The monies was for a commitment made prior to your decision to move and the parents of EGJ will gladly write off the R 7 500.00 deposit that was paid.
3. Do you think the people at any other school are not going to talk behind your back. Then think again.
4. I never once criticized the move of you once again go and read my postings.
I criticized the timing of the move as you will know we are playing league finals on the 26th and then Beeld knock out.
I on numerous occasions as a FACT stated how crucial he is to the team.
And i don’t blame you for the eventual move at all.
5. Why does it bug you if and when EGJ fetch a boy from another school RUGBY and ATHLETICS are 2 different things.
6. Yes i am wrong about that it was an sms it was actually a Whatsapp message (whatever the difference is / are)
7. The group you were removed from are the u16 players parents group if i am correct so i don’t understand as you have broken your alliance with that team why you should be remaining on there.
Deon Holtz laat weet my asb wanneer in die week jou pas dan ontmoet ons vir n koppie koffie , dink nie dis nodig dat ons EG Jansen se naam hier moet weggooi , nadat hy so mooi na my en jou seuns gekyk het , dan sort ons dit soos n Ds. vriend van my dit sekerlik verkies.
@Ploegskaar: I dont think that your diatribe deserves a response. It would dignify rubbish.@Deon: Are you lending your ears out to general comments? It would seem so. You should ask for details before you give credibility to gossip and speculation. By that, I mean names and teams for which they are playing at GCB. Until then, take it with a pinch of salt
@Roger: Ja julle voel ek ook
@Gungets Tuft: A school providing an environment for learners to excel within, my opinion/definition. Therefore there must be many “schools of excellence” in SA, seeing that a top rugby team cannot a requirement to provide these opportunities, and too much focus on rugby may even make schools loose focus on what should be the true focus of a school, i.e. education/academics.
Superschools. I don’t think such an animal exists. I think it refers to rugby at school level, and certain schools’ results being consistently “super” in relation to those of the common garden variety wrt rugby.
Klink vir my na ‘n ondier, as jy verstaan wat ek bedoel.
@deonholt: Thank you for clearing that up, it is very gutsy of you to come out like that. As I said in my last comment, I didn’t know the whole story.
I guess parents know what is best for their children, and I certainly am not one to judge. I wish you all of the best, and may your son get what he wants out of this.
@BOG: @boxkick: @boxkick:
Follow links above. There were more bloggers mentioning GCB “officials” openly approaching players to recruit. I think Rugbyman also mentioned GCB openly approaching players.
Never thought GCB recruits.
@BoishaaiPa: Marketing phrases, coined by those that I assume felt less confident or threatened, in an attempt to distinguish themselves from the rest. Pretentious if you ask me.
@BOG: There is something that reeks, but its certainly not the smell of malice. Probably fear, hopefully not crap, at your age possibly both. What did you say the other day about repeating a half-truth or lie often enough? Your comments are mostly about politics and GCB, but you seem out of touch with both, hence I cannot believe a word you say.
@Gungets Tuft: If you find out, please let me know as well…I think Wildeklawer started this Super Schools thing when it coined the phrase “Wildeklawer Superschools” in 2009…It unfortunatly stuck within certain circles!…
@Ploegskaar: Simple! Your “safely” assumption is incorrect and It reeks of malice. The migration has been ongoing for around 160 yrs, from before there were even OGs@Deon: Can you elaborate please?@Gungets Tuft: Fully agree, hence my use of inverted commas- used from Predators comments
Excuse my ignorance, but what defines a “school of excellence”, or a “Super School”. I don’t know whether to attack or defend ..
@BOG: @Ploegskaar: I was shocked to learn during the last week that many of those from outside are/were what people nowadays refer to as “purchased”. Quite unexpected.
@BOG: Can safely assume many from outside are son’s of OG’s, most likely under duress and most of the others did not make it into the schools of excellence in their native provinces. Some obviously lured by that undoubted success, but still success attained by default.
@Predator: Although I have a very high regard for GCBs academic standards, to a certain extent, I made my comment light heartedly. But as usual, and as can be expected, the vultures are circling above. The number of school players who make it as professional players, is so small, that your decision cannot be faulted. Even with an 80%, these days, you cannot be certain of acceptance. Two yrs ago, a girl with 90 and 92% for Maths and Science was declined to study Vet Science at Onderstepoort- because of her colour. I read somewhere, that of all the GCB professional rugby players, more than 90% either have a tertiary education, or in the process of attaining one.
@Grasshopper: I must have missed them on the list. A mining house gives them R150000 for this achievement – every year.@Ploegskaar: Sure, their “catchment area is quite large- from CT to Durban to Jhb/Pretoria and around the world. I wonder what attracts kids away, inexplicably, from these paradises to such a God forsaken desolate place? There must REALLY be something that cannot be explained and this truth and realization, must be terribly painful to swallow.
@BOG: Thanks BOG, but there was nothing wrong with the academic excellence of the school . It had more to do with the time spend training compared to the time spend studying.
It was a very difficult decision, one which I had to take, on his behalf. A kid of 15 years old is not mentally and emotionally developed enough to make a decision that can influence his future tremendously. There was simply not enough time left in the day for proper studying.
The academic entry levels at the various Universities around the country for certain career choices is very high. Then our skin color is also a limiting factor for certain careers. He was a 80% plus scholar and the time rugby demanded started taking its toll. That was when I had to make the call on his behalf.
It is a very good school with all its ducks in a row. To perform at the level of the Super Schools will without a doubt take a lot more training and time than at the other schools. I commend the effort these coaches put in and it will always be nice to watch their performance all over the country.
It would be very interesting to see the academic statistics of the rugby players from all the Super Schools. My prediction is it will be in the low 60% to 50% on average. ………and this my esteemed blogger friends is not University entry level marks.
You do not have to wear a Super School jersey to make it to the unions!!
@Ploegskaar: Ja but how many schools of excellence have a national sheepshearing champion?
@Grasshopper: Apparently GCB is the only school of excellence on this continent, so the rest of us may as well pack it in….or, then again, maybe most of us know that its success over the course of its history has mostly been down to its location, in the middle of nowhere, close to nothing. There are many schools of excellence in this country, many competing for the best scholars in the same catchment area, that did not garner its success and reputation on success by default. Those are the real schools of excellence.
@BOG:@Grasshopper: Why settle for mediocrity? The most obvious place to find the best institution for one’s son would be in an environment based on academic and sport excellence, preferred by the cream of those central cities.
@Tjoppa: Have you ever had a son at boarding school? My son has been boarding for the past 18 months and I can tell you that it is the single biggest advantage in life that we have ever given him. We, and him, would not change the situation for all the tea in China. We have seen him grow, in a short space of time, into a confident and mature young man who is becoming increasingly competent in handling himself in a variety of situations – including, but not limited to, knowing when to use an extra blanket in the cold. Responsibility, courage, comradeship. It’s really something to behold. If we removed him from that – I can promise you there would be a riot. Come the end of the holidays he his champing at the bit to get back to school – to his mates and his routine. True – we don’t get to give him his presents on his birthday, but he knows that he is loved and that the gift we have given is beyond comparison.
@BOG: I can think of one better, called Westville Boys High, closely followed by Glenwood & College….
@Predator: There is absolutely no reason why a school which provides top coaching facilities ( presumably your “super school”) cannot also provide an exceptional academic platform for the child. I happen to know of a school, centrally located, “rated number one”, more often than not and also consistently in the top 10 for Maths and Science in SA. If you require the details, let me know.
@Tjoppa: My son boards. He is currently sleeping in a dorm, shared with 2 others that he will regard as friends for life, along with at least 20 others that he regards as brothers. I see him every weekend. We surf together, did Dusi together this year. While I might not give him that extra blanket he has learned to do that on his own, and a lot of other private battles more important than those, and he stands very tall and proud that those are his victories, he has proudly used the words “Chill Dad, it’s sorted” more often than I can count.
There’s a place for boarding, especially when my son is sleeping in the same BE as his great-grandfather who was at College in 1911, his grandfather in 1944, and myself in 1977. He is immensely proud of that of his place in that family history, and it means a great deal to our family. He does not feel that he has missed anything, and has gained a great deal. JMHO. And his …
@Tjoppa: that was a little bit of a low blow, many boys board and for many it’s the right thing…staying at home with mommy & daddy is not always the best for some….
@deonholt: You will have to live your decisions. Unfortunately you sold the souls of your children for what? You are not going to be able to cover them with an extra blanket during a cold night. Steal a kiss while he is asleep. Drive him to school and Saturdays watch him play. On his birthday you will not be able to give him his presents. You will not hear his teenage voice break. You will miss him becoming a man. And when he is all grown up and not giving you much attention do not cry, or wonder why. Because it was only the way you treated him.
@Predator: So bek moet jam kry.
I have moved my son from a Super School to one that is not even on the radar. He was a rugby bursary scholar. I decided that the academic future of my son was more important than a ” maybe it will happen ” rugby future after school. The Super School tried very hard to keep him but understood my concern about the academics. I must admit that they trained him exceptionally well and he has played the top schools in SA. There is no guarantees of future contracts. I think the lack of achievement or underachievement by the parents often presents itself in the way they handle their kids future. If you cannot see the benefit of top academic marks over playing for a prominent rugby school,.. I’m afraid that YOU are ruining your sons future.
@BOG: Ek is darem nie Duppie/Proppie wat met homself praat en boonop geluk wens nie.
Ek het gehoor die Augustus wedstryd datum is gewysig, maar dis al.
@Deon: Behalwe dat ek merk dat jy of met jouself gesels of n “altar”, laat ek jou aandag aflei na n meer belangrike ontmoeting in Augustus. Ek lees elders dat SARU se reelings weer n impak kan he op die wedstryd. Is dit mitswillig of net dom, of beide. Het julle al iets hieroor gehoor?
@Woltrui: A very loose association of sorts, but my views are my own.
@Ploegskaar: I take it you, “”represent””, BL then?
@Gungets Tuft: Yep, as a boy who initially chose the wrong group of friends at high school I can attest to the importance of friendships in the teen years, we all can. By moving your kids around it does not give them the chance to build lasting friendships, feel accepted in a group and enjoy the brotherhood/camaraderie so important in building grounded young men. This was the how it worked in my day, maybe now you just seek the best financial deal as times are hard…..not sure…
@deonholt: Good luck with the decision, there is no reason why your son should suffer as a result of the course of events.
Just one thing … “What I have learned is that as long as people can get something from you or your kids, you will be accepted and treated well. But, the moment you act against their will, you are nothing …” … it’s certainly not like that everywhere and rather a sad commentary on the negative side of the aggressive recruitment that has started at schoolboy level. If that is what you and your boy have learned then I fear a golden thread of your sons schoolboy life has been broken. The brotherhood that my son and his schoolmates have has brought me immense pleasure, it reminds me of my own schooldays, with memories, and friends to this day – 37 years since I left school. We’re all losing something ….
@jakes: when other schools are recruiting at grade 8,9 & 10 too, why would they pull out of fixtures with Glenwood? They don’t have a leg to stand on if they doing the same thing…
@Greenmasjien- ons sal maar moet sien jong.. Ek kan jou amper verseker dat die nuwe Glenwood ‘recruits’ so aan die einde van die 2014 seisoen, nie toegelaat gaan word om te speel nie..indien Glenwood hul we’ll skeduleer, sal sekere spanne(skole) onttrek…watch this space!! Dit gaan interessant raak.
@beet: More like the Judge Masipa’s – although she is by no stretch anywhere near as sanctimonious!!
@deonholt: to echo what @BuffelsCM: said, thanks for taking the time and being brave enough to comment.
You’ve disclosed so much that the Barry Roux’s and Gerrie Nel’s amongst us have plenty to work with now.
@McCulleys Workshop: Google is your friend!
@Woltrui: Zero.
@McCulleys Workshop: Zero.
@Roger: Zero.
@kosie: Zero.
@MikeSt: Zero.
@jakes: Zero.
@Woltrui: Any idea what the inverted commas were for? Seems I’ve touched a nerve as well.
@Woltrui: there are more representatives here then u think… some in disguise
@Ploegskaar: Dear sir. Very few, if any Bloggers, represent a school on this blog. Maybe one or two Garsies representative’s. The most bloggers are supporters. Capich Moantain Goat
2 Points.
1. Glenwood might coach the boy a bit better(which I doubt). They are definately not going to be able to teach the kid what LOYALITY mean.
2. I wonder how the current Glenwood U/16 inside centre, his parents and friends feel?
@Deon: Is that a religious experience while you have your nails done? Or just nail biting fantasies – Pedagogue
@jakes: Ja , en jy dink Grey Bloem gaan wat se.
Ek ken nie een van die GCB bestuur maar kan jou nou al waarborg , hulle seuns will rugby jol en hulle sal.
Affies sal speel as hulle glo daar enige kans is vir n wen.
College en Glenwwod speel al meer as 100 jaar , so “good luck” met jou poging op n “political obstacle”.
Deon , sterke met julle besluit en ek is seker jou seuns sal GW geniet.
Deon dis goed en wel dat jou seun Glenwood toe gaan. Of dit sy vooruitsigte vir sy loopbaan, rugby of akademies gaan verbeter, is te bespiegel en definitief nie gewaarborg nie..dit hang ook af natuurlik of hy gaan aanpas in sy nuwe skool. Ek hoop julle sterkte toe. Is Glenwood van plan om jou seun en die seuns al die jaar te gebruik? Julle moet weet dat daar ‘n helse bohaai gemaak gaan word sodat die seuns nie vir Glenwood mag speel vir die res van die seisoen nie. Die hoofde van die oorblywende opponente in 2014 vir Glenwood gaan ingelig word ten opsigte van die aggresiewe poging deur Glenwood om hul spanne te versterk. Ons sal sien wat die reaksie hierop gaan wees. Jou seun gaan dalk teenkanting kry as hulle die seisoen al gebruik wil word
@deonholt: I agree with you Deon. It is really unacceptable that EG want you to pay your son’s tour fees. Never have I heard of such an unfair expectation, especially since they dared phone you at 07h33. Really sick of EG.
I am glad you decided on a place for your child where you do not have to pay for an overseas tour. You go Deon the pedagogue. GW deserves you as a parent.
***
@deonholt: do yourself a favour and don’t let rugby define your kids life.
Good luck
@deonholt: Thank You Deon for giving us all the facts! It must have taken some guts to do it !
I suppose not everybody will be satisfied (with your explanation) but as long as you and the rest of the family feel you are doing it for the right reasons, nobody can complain.
I trust that your sons will be happy at Glenwood. Just bear in mind that their studies are at this stage more important than sport. Obviously Glenwood has a good academic record and if they keep a balance between the academy and sport they should do well
I hope they will adapt well enough in their new
environment
@deonholt: We do not know each other. I do not wish to critise your decision regargding the move.
What I do wish to say is the following:
It is your right to send your child to any school of your choice. In fact I am prepared to die for that right.
With every right comes a responsibility.
I do believe you only thought about what’s in it for either your son or yourself.
This is clear to me as you did not exercise your responsibility to advise your present school in May as this would have impacted on his selection to GK.
If you were convinced the move was to your son’s advantage the GK selection would not have been important to you.
Then your school would have known about the move long in advance.
I do however think that your decision is a selfish one.
You wanted to gain the maximum you could without any regard for any other party.
This is why people get upset with this kind of move. It is done without accepting your responsibility. As long as you or in this case your son can get the maximum you can, all is well. I do believe a lot of hard work lies ahead for your son with his academics. I hope he will be able to cope. Nothing I say will change your point of view I accept. Good luck with your decision!
@GREENMASJIEN, @mikest, @Valke, @Playa, @Roger
Do yourself a favour and get the facts below.
My name is Deon and I am the “deal seeker” father of Maarten. I am probably going to upset a couple of people with the facts regarding Maarten’s move to Glenwood. I don’t like writing what I am about to write here, but I have to put the facts on the table. We as parents, Maarten and GW are being judged by people here on hearsay and not facts.
1. Maarten was approached end of 2013 by Monnas to join them. We as parents were not even aware of this. He kept on nagging that we must go and see them and we decided after the visit to send him there. After the trials he was selected on either 9 or wing. He is an inside center. He called me to go and fetch him as his goal for this year is to play Grant Khomo and will not be able to do it on 9 or wing.
After his return, we learned that it was said behind our backs that it was not really a big loss for his Jansen team as he does not tackle or pass the ball and that he is anyway not big enough. But, I was called numerous times by a couple of Jansen parents asking me to bring him back to Jansen. Quote: “Please bring him back, everything sorted and no hard feelings”.
2. Maarten was approached by Glenwood in May this year. (Our youngest son in grade 7 is also going to GW next year after he was recruited by GW at a tournament hosted by GW and it was after this that Maarten was recruited.) Since Bani had to attend a info evening (End of May) we were again asked about Maarten. I explained that he is playing for a great team and must 1st finish his obligation there.
At this evening we were really impressed with what GW has to offer for sport athletes. Some of this include individual body conditioning, personal skills development (sometimes hosted by Shark players) and a lot more. The Investec Rugby Academy is based at GW and is heavily involved with coaching of the GW players. Maarten also kicks for his team and will receive personal coaching on kicking and chances are that he will have some coaching by Pat Lambie and Frans Steyn. Our decision to send him to GW was made on Friday, 30 May. So, Maarten was NOT scouted at the Grant Khomo. The final agreement was sent to GW BEFORE the semis of the Valke league was played. How can we not send him there with opportunities like this! Another parent who’s son is also playing for the Valke, said: “Die Valke sal altyd op die B-veld speel”.
The only reason we remained silent about this, is that we knew Maarten could have been harmed by not selecting him for the Grant Khomo team. Since I have told only ONE person yesterday morning that he is moving to GW, the news spread like a veld fire and we are so bad and dropping his team and we are bad parents and so on.
It was written here that I informed all parties concerned by means of SMS. This is a LIE. I was called at 07:33 by a parent from EG Jansen asking when I am going to pay Maarten’s money that was due for the end of year tour to UK. I said that Maarten will not be going as he is going to GW. I am not stupid and I know the call was about Maarten going to GW. You don’t call a parent in school holidays on a Friday at 07:33 to ask about tour fees. I knew that this person will spread the news. We have an u16 parent group on Whatsapp. After this call I said to my wife that I can just as well inform the rest of the parents on the group since it will be known soon and want them to hear it from us. And that is what I have done! I have not sent a single SMS regarding this matter. Cowards do that! Since I spoke with this single person, my wife and I were removed from the group. Many parents have sent us messages of encouragement and that they would have done the same and even wish for opportunities like this.
What bugs me is that Jansen fetched a u16 player days before the inter athletics and 2 other players (u14 & u15) from another school at their hostel on a Friday afternoon. This was in the papers.
What I have learned is that as long as people can get something from you or your kids, you will be accepted and treated well. But, the moment you act against their will, you are nothing and things are said just like it was done here. Up till this very moment we were talked about behind our backs but no one with us.
I am not saying that Maarten will ever play for the Boks because he is going to GW, but I think his chances have improved to be developed as ‘n player.
Regards,
Deon Holtzhausen
@GREENMASJIEN: The proof is in the pudding, Glenwood’s last proper Bok was John Allan over 20 years ago now. Where are these talented boys going? I mean SA schools locks Schnetler and Jaydon Hill. Shaun Malton? These kids go missing after school. Our only real hope of a Bok soon is Warren Whiteley, Kyle Cooper and Fred Zeilanga as these guys are outside chances. Grey Bloem is like a conveyer belt of Boks….
Here is the list of players in the provincial mix, but non are stand-out…yet…
Kyle Cooper Hooker Sharks
Fred Zeilanga Flyhalf Sharks
Robbie Harris Prop Sharks/Leicester Tigers
Dean Muir Hooker Border Bulldogs
John Roy Jenkinson Prop Free State
Brendon Groenewald Lock/Flank Sharks
Nic Strauss Lock/Flank Sharks/ Narbonne, France
Shaun Adendorff Flank SA U20/Bulls U21
Francois Kleyneins Flank SA U20/Sharks
Warren Whiteley No 8 Lions Captain/Springbok 7’s
Matthew Torrance Scrumhalf Scotland U20/Lions U21
Kobus Lourens Centre Leopards
Ian Adendorff Centre Springbok 7’s
Nanyak Dala Flank Canada
Peter Zsitvai Flyhalf Hungary
Brian Shabangu Wing/Centre Springbok 7’s
Wade Elliot Lock/Flank Sharks U21
Deucellen van der Merwe Prop Sharks U19/Lions U21
Shaun Malton Hooker Sharks U21/Saracens/Nottingham
Meyrick Walker Flank Bulls U19
Alwyn Janse Van Rensburg Lock/Flank Sharks U19
Marne Coetzee Prop SA U20/Sharks U21
Nkululeko Marwana Centre Sharks U19
Jacques Taylor Hooker Sharks U21
Neil Oelofse Prop WP U19
Carel Swart Flank Bulls U19/SA U18 7’s
Ferdi Horn Lock/Flank Bulls U19
Corne Vermaak Fullback Free State U19
Sihle Ngxabi Lock Free State U19
Warren Potgieter Flyhalf Free State U19
Zee Mkhabela Scrumhalf Free State U19
Dean Moolman Centre Bulls U19
Dexter Fahey Prop EP Kings
@boxkick: As a matter of fact they were there to watch rugby and one actual simple reason why cannot recruit from there is that EGJ don’t have a hostel / boarding school so they cannot recruit from all over.
Proudly mentioning that EGJ is the only DAY school ONLY that features in the top 15 consistently.
Poaching – what is this?
What my post is saying is that these so called “mercaneries” are not as ruthless as all that , nor are the boys or their parents victims.They are simply exercising their right to make their on decisions.
Those that make it after school from small schools will have only done so from another world class institution , be it a Varsity or well run club side , similar to the top schools who feed these world class institutions.
If your good enough you will play. (In SA – Just remember to deduct the number of spaces due to quotas )
The evidence in favor of “big schools” by far overwhelms the odd “uitskieter” , see number of pro players in the current Super Rugby season from GCB , probably 15 just in the current Sharks crop of pro players.
Never mind rest of SA and overseas, so yes , world class “rugby” schools do offer a MUUUUCH better chance to a talented player.
I say by all means schools must set out to offer the best coaching, best facilities, best support services.
But don’t poach!
When schools poach the message is clear – “We want to win at all costs!”
And to a certain extent poaching suggests that the poaching school’s so-called world class facilities on offer are not as grand as they were made out to be. Either that or the coaching ain’t so hot.
There are also still missing explanations for how the kids from the schools with so-called limited opportunities are still going on to become Springboks. That’s the mother of all female dog slaps right there for anyone suggesting that the world class opportunities at school XYZ will place a player in a better position to succeed after school.
Poaching in a way suggests to me that because a school realises it can’t actually make an existing player into a success story after school no matter how much time and energy is devoted to that player at it’s world class facility, it needs to go out and buy someone who has a realistic chance of becoming a poster boy one day.
@all – viiiiiiiivaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The rugby boys and their parents know what they are doing.
The facilitators , coaches and recruiters are doing great work!!!!
SA school rugby is probably the best on the planet and the young Boks are always competitive on the international stage.
In what better environment should the game be played , young players today can make a clear career choice , knowing that the support , conditioning and skills are available to take them on to the pro stage.
GCB are the leaders , prepping young players for the pro game and other schools are quickly learning the game and following , while getting some great results along the way.
Those that do not , do not cater for specific needs and will be doing those talented sports boys and girls a disservice.These young talents may then , with their parents guidance have to move to “greener” pastures for them to best develop their talents.
Viva Pro Sport ! Viva Recruitment ! Viva freedom of choice !
Viva The rugby boys and their parents that know what they are doing !
@Grasshopper: Until the drivers leave the school and then all implodes. In Pretoria we have various examples of schools selling their soles just to implode a few seasons down the line. Good luck
@boxkick: I actually think you are right, even though it’s going against school traditions & ethos. With sport being professional now, if you don’t recruit you get left behind, the sad truth. Look at DHS & PBHS, both great schools! They didn’t recruit and are now playing catch up, but is the damage done. Will they catch up? Garsies & Westville, two pretty new schools, now well known and thriving.
@jakes: Glenwood have Affies away, Grey Bloem at home and Maritzburg College away in term 3. Maybe a fixture with KZN development too. Sometimes they play a touring side too, not sure about this year…
I Quote – “The damaging statement was however this one: “Affies het ’n beleid dat ons nie teen skole speel wat sogenaamde post-matrieks of huursoldate gebruik nie,” het dr. Pierre Edwards, hoof van Affies, gesê. Translated to English it basically states that Affies has a policy that they will not play against schools that use so-called post-matrics or mercenaries (rugby recruits).”
Let us all see the real reason for Affies withdrawing from Gapsfontein games. I hope the real Dr Edward stands up this time.
I wonder if these new recruits by Glenwood recruited over the holiday period will be allowed to play in the 3rd term? Which games does Glenwood still have for the rest of the year? I know Affies is one of them. I think the principals should be made aware of this, the playing field again will not be equal if these boys( of provincial caliber) are forced into Glenwood’s under 16 team for the rest of the season. They should not be allowed to play actually.
@grasshopper – grassy, my honest opinion is that if you don’t, you will fall behind, I mean I don’t think Grey Bloem needs to recruit ever, but they do…schools cant sell themselves on academic achievements anymore because as we all know that kite just doesn’t fly anymore – refer to first year university drop outs and failures as a direct result of our poor education at school level – rudi was at the academy week if I am not mistaken…strangely the bulls big canon xander was also at the grant khomo all three days – it would make more sense for him to have been at academy week one would think as he contracts for after school at the bulls, but as we all know they pull players from allover SA and place them at certain schools to the benefits of the bulls….whoever believes that recruiting shouldn’t happen is in my opinion naïve to reality…as long as and trust me it will get worse, rugby is professional, its gonna take place whether you are in grade 8, 10 or whatever…its just the nature of the beast…the challenge to all is to up their game either to keep students at schools with effective academies or development in some other form…but those who have this in place and strive for perfection will always outdo those who take things for granted…most annoying is the ones who do poaching themselves throwing stones because they know inside that they don’t offer value
@boxkick: surely not a Rudi Dames! That is too obvious! Or the new Voortrekker guy! Glenwood seriously don’t need to recruit now…
@grasshopper – nope, not Tony…its the directors of rugby at the various schools and or scouts from unions and they’r all mates
@Grasshopper: I don’t believe you should start reminiscing about the “Glenwood you knew” yet. Perhaps things are not the way we are made to believe or some of us want to believe.
No-one should blame Glenwood alone, perhaps not at all. I find it hard to believe that GW unilaterally and randomly initiated the negotiations that certainly must have taken place. If the kids/parents approached GW, and not the other way around, why is GW to blame??? I cannot see that anyone can blame GW based on the little we know???? We simply do not know the facts.
Very relevant would be the question of why dissident or unhappy parents/kids (unhappiness warranted or not) would approach GW specifically? It is not as if GW is the school next door! Perhaps GW has over time become known as an easy target. GW and all it wants to portray about itself, due to its track record wrt commercialising sbr, may in fact have become the real commodities interpreted as commodities for sale. There are red lights flashing for GW here.
The conduct of these kids/parents should serve as a reminder that no-one can buy loyalty. Loyalty, “school pride” and true allegiance, like most of the best things in life, cannot be purchased, cannot be bartered and cannot be quantified and expressed in monetary terms.
The sad part is not the loss suffered by EG, but the loss suffered by the kids. Significant hope of teaching ethics by example has blown out of the window of opportunity long ago, probably when EG purchased the kids in the first place.
I hope Glenwood improves on EG’s failed attempt at education, for the sake of the kids.
@boxkick: I wonder if it’s Tony ‘pinhead’ Pinheiro for Glenwood….
@grasshopper – the only one of them in school branded gear was the guy from grey bloem…I just happen to know the rest of them…most of them I should say…they all walk around with programmes and pens in their hands, and that’s not for dishing out autographs I can assure you
@boxkick: were they actually walking around in school branded gear?
@all – go look at the post related to the boys in Bulls u16 squad with relation to where they were at primary school and tell me Glenwood is the only school that does this…lets stop being so naïve guys…it happens all over
@all – if any, and more particularly MikeSt, was at the grant khomo, he would have noticed a plethora of scouts around the fields – I personally noticed Grey Bloem, Jeppe, Westville, Glenwood, MCollege to name a few…where was the EGJ Boys…or do you just rock up at the schools and take the boys from the hostels as reported in the news papers? Hypocrite!!!!!
Two things to remember, before this becomes another tedious 1000 post thread:
1.No use venting at the GW bloggers, whether they approve or not, they can’t change anything.
2.There are very few here that “represent” schools who don’t partake, taking pot shots from your glass house gives you zero credibility.
@MikeSt: And I agree one hundred percent on that BUT I do feel that again it is unfair that you expect sympathy from people that do not condone your actions. Like I said before poaching is poaching and according to me there is no right time for that.
So my suggestion to EGJ and the boys. Rugby is a game played by 15 people and success is achieved if all 15 on the field give their best. Show the boys replacing the “deserters” the respect ,support and confidence, and I am sure they will die for the honour to represented EGJ on the field with the current team members. And should you lose a game, and you gave your utmost. know your earned the respect of the whole SBR community.
Another problem that Glenwood has is the Old Boys Chairman seems to support this recruitment, even though officially it’s OK at grade 10 and before. The rule needs to be stricter and be grade 8 only…
@Tjoppa: Ok lets try one more time. I am not complaining about the move.
NO team can recover 1 week before finals from losing 2 KEY players (possibly a 3rd) and that’s the only point I am making nothing more nothing less.
@Tjoppa: that was the Glenwood I knew….
@Grasshopper: Thank you for not blaming Apartheid and the previous goverment.
@Tjoppa: the thing is we are a tiny group of people in the know, the majority have no idea of what is going on so perceive it as the school just doing well! Some old boys are blinded by the success….actually support it. I think if they knew the underhanded tactics they might change their minds….
@MikeSt: Can I just refer you to a certain mr Ackerman and his boys. A team with no “talent” or “name” but competing with the best in the world. How? Good coaching, big heart from players and brotherhood. Try this method, our history is full with such teams that also competed and excelled in top competitions. In the school system thinking about schools like Marlow, Boland Landbou and I am sure a lot other schools can be named.
@Tjoppa: maybe, Old Boys need to step in soon! The problem is management is appointed by the Gov…
@Grasshopper: 105 years of proud history destroyed in 5 years ??????????????
lets just let this go as we wont get anywhere with this discussion thx
enjoy the weekend
Also, Glenwood is no new kid on the block trying to be noticed, they have a 105 year proud history. If they are actively recruiting then this is wrong and against the schools traditions, morals and values. The bad egg allowing this needs to be rooted out ASAP!
@MikeSt: again, I don’t agree with any movement after grade 8. However, parents are the problem here. Glenwood are not exactly going to say no to a talented kid….
@Woltrui: Praat julle blou trui manne nou……..
Soos ek gese het enjoy dit manne
@Grasshopper: Welcome to this Sir.
Am referring to now as in today with us losing 2 definates and maybe a 3rd to you guys.
u16 boys.
As you will gather I’m not moaning about the move am moaning about the time of the move.
@MikeSt: Sorry Mike. Maar min medelye vir Jansies in die verband. “As jy jou uitgee as prostituut moet jy nie kla as jy gestiek word nie”
Tjoppa praat maar net die waarheid.
@Tjoppa: Fair enough
@MikeSt: I wonder why Glenwood want another U16 prop? They already have 3 out of the 4 in the KZN Grant Khomo side.
@MikeSt: Mike in no instance do I condone the behaviour of Glenwood at all. But with the same breath I do not condone EGJ’s behaviour at all. Building a school on sound foundations is so much better that trying to shine with fools gold. I think it is in bad taste that EGJ is asking sympathy while doing the same. I hope you do understand.
@MikeSt: Warren Potgieter and the big prop also Potgieter I think to Glenwood…who else?
Wow, that was a full out bombardment of Glenwood! Reading this it seems the parents are the ones to blame. I bet they approached Glenwood, but this blog is never based on any fact, all grapevine and hearsay. Glenwood is a very middle income school and don’t have cash overflowing so EG can compete. If the boy wanted to stay he would have. Deon, let’s make it clear again, no boy is fair game, but if they want to move and have talent why not offer them a bursary like the other talented boys at the school. I don’t like these ‘raids’ or moves as much as you do, but I can say in the end the parents decide.
My ouers se waar woorde
Moet nooit n sot op sy dwaashede antwoord nie………..
Jammer ek het dit nie vroeer al toegepas nie.
@Playa: True but the thief does not go back to the shop the morning after and complain about the quality of the goods stolen.
@Tjoppa: Two wrongs don’t make a right though.
@Tjoppa:
Its quite evident that this Blog is for the Elite Schools only and that any thing a school of the nature and caliber as EG Jansen is trying to do to develop children and take so much pride in doing so is an issue as whenever the name EGJ is mentioned it is met with sarcastic / vindictive remarks.
I cant see myself commenting on this anymore as i will leave it to the BIG GUNS out there……….. let you decide what is going on in the rugby world as its evident i dont have the same knowledge as THE BIG GUNS
Tjoppa we have an attitude at EG of not complaining most of the time. We have lost many a player (AND I CAN GIVE YOU NAMES AND SCHOOLS WITH PLEASURE OF JUST THE PAST 2 YEARS) In the past 10 years since I had my 1st son at school. We normally never complain a word. BUT OH BOY LET EG JANSEN TAKE ONE PLAYER FROM ANOTHER AREA ITS NOT ONLY IN THE PAPERS BUT GUYS LIKE YOU ACTUALLY GET SO MUCH ENJOYMENT OUT OF IT……….
We as a very small school with a lot of passion for the game of rugby from the boys / parents / teachers all together will once again get through this and get out the better on the other side.
Enjoy
@Tjoppa: Enjoy the ride on this one Tjoppa…………….
@MikeSt: No you should act in such a manner that if something like this happens to EGJ again we all should say “This is not right” but at this stage Die Blinde Sambok seems to be the right attitude.
But take a page out of the book of all RM – His reaction when some of their u/16 was provided better opportunities and MenloPark, 10km’s from Gapsfontein, was a simple smile and shrug of the shoulder. And if I am not wrong said “what comes around goes around”.
@MikeSt: Bad news !
I believe they ( boy and his parents ) are making a mistake. I sincerely hope they change their minds.
@kosie: Wellspoken
@Roger: I think the Glenwolves are consuming their Glenryck sardines and washing them down with Glenfiddich and having a chuckle whilst reading all this!
@valke: Looks like #1 is on his way aswell………………………………… f%*$%*^$(YUI
@Roger: Groenewald Boys High, seeing that they are turning into a West-Germanic force.http://blog.schoolboyrugby.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif
or ***
Glenwood probably wanted to strenghten their u/16 team for their games against Affies after the holidays, and then strenghen their 1st team going forward.I actually hope Affies pull out of this fixtures as well because it is becoming rediculous what Glenwood is doing now. Also the parents of EG Jansen who allowed this kid to move at this stage of the season should be ashamed of themselves. What are they teaching their child? Could they not have waited until after the season or at least next year after all the hard work done? Glenwood are overstepping the boundries now and are making a bad name for themselves to say the least. It is easy to win games and be in the top 20 every year if you purchase schoolboys from all over the country..they should change their name to ***
@Tjoppa: @Deon:
Though you would make such a statement competing in the B division…………….. was very important much more than playing Makro Schools rugby in the Beeld.
Losing a key player just before Tuks Series play offs also i suppose is in order……….
so what should you do just let the whole team suffer.
And maybe maybe you must read the parents letter on the Florida matter on why their child was moved………..
Same as we lost a top athlete and rugby player Schimper to another school in January just before athletics
And we lost another 9 athletes in April to another school.
Should we just accept losing children of half that you guys are not even aware of and still try and compete???
The fact that idiots can run to papers with a story on losing One Individual does not compare to the fight EG must have daily on children going to better offers from other institutions.
Maybe we should, also get the publicity and start putting all of this in newspapers.
@MikeSt: But must ask that the schools must also take it on themselves to ” TEACH THEIR KIDS THE ETHICS OF LIFE. YOU DON’T LEAVE A JOB UNTIL THE JOB IS FINISH” Therefore do not poach players from another school just before the most important athletic event of the year. That is now if athletics also fall under the same rules.
VAT SO KATVIS.
Perhaps a question of the loss of honour amongst thieves, at worst. A case of Friar Tuck in his black attire complaining about Robin Hood, the Prince of thieves, dressed in his Grassy, green hunting uniform poaching “fair” game the good friar poached himself to begin with, in woods he regards as his personal poaching grounds, and ap-poaching other “fair” game?
Perhaps Neill Blomkamp (District 9) can produce a South African sequel to the Hunger Games featuring the battle between these fine institutions.
At least one of the other boys seem to be returning where he came from in the first place.
I interpreted the term “Going down South” as going back to the Western Cape, so the geographics are starting to confuse me here.
I recall a much worse situation between EG and Vereeniging Gimnasium.Let both schools enjoy the extreme level to which they both helped escalate the already existing circus.
@valke: 100% in agreement with you…..
@MikeSt: As stated before, I agree with you on the timing of the move.
That is why I suggested that the 2 schools try and get to a agreement on this.
Glenwood does not need him, or any other recruit, until next year.
Let them finish the season and then go to Durbs for the summer holiday.
One thing is for sure, it all those boys leave now, EG will probably not beat Kempies in the league final in 2 weeks.
Smaller schools will always loose players to bigger schools. They can at least let them complete the season.
At least the other big schools, taking Valke players ( not just EG Jansen players ) this year, wait until the end of the year.
i say it again – would love to understand his parents thinking?
?
@Playa: What actioned the move or moves i don’t know.
He has wonderful parents so the behind closed door decisions i will not be aware of.
The heartache about these things are that it causes a chain reaction because if you loose a key player you must go out and look for a replacement again.
@valke: I beg to differ with you on the Glenwood not to blame.
Glenwood should have acted in an ethical manner and asked the question on what stage the season were in in Gauteng and then based on that have said ok we would love you on board but complete the next months crucial games and then come to us.
After the season thet can actually pretty much do as they please.
EG and i presume most of the normla day schools such as Kempton, Centurion etc etc can in any case not compete with the type of bursaries Glenwood is offering these boys.
@valke: Ok, that clears it up a bit. Looks like the parents are just deal seekers. I don’t know the whole story so I’ll hold it there.
@Roger: this boy was in EG in Grade 8 and Grade 9 before he left n Grade 10 to Monnas for 1 term and then returned to EG.
Again i must stress its not about the opportunity he is getting. Its the timing of such a move. Nothing else
@Roger: I can see where this is going.
He was in EG grade 8 and 9. Went to Monnas start of grade 10. Came back to EG and is now going to Glenwood.
Much more to this story, that should not be discussed here.
All I can say is that Glenwood is not to blame in this specific case, same as Monnas could not be blamed for the January move.
@Roger: Is that right???
WOW!
@MikeSt: I’m no fan of Glenwood’s privations but reading above it sounds like this kid was at Monnas in the 1st term, EG in the 2nd and now on his way to Glenwood – is that right? If so, EG can’t really cry foul – what prompted him to move from Monnas to EG in the first place?
Would love to understand his parents thinking
It’s a dog eat dog world out there. At least you guys are aware of this. Some schools will only discover when the class register is taken that there are boys missing.
Number 8 from Valke is indeed a good player, saw him yesterday against BB XV. Think its pathetic from Glenwood, cant coach/develop players so they buy/recruit/poach from other school(s) who put in hard work doing the coaching/developing.
@Mike St – agree what you said earlier about it being a POACHING WEEK, but this will probably never stop …
For EG jansen losing a player of the caliber of Martin is a massive loss for the school. He has so much talent and surely he will be a massive gain for another school its all about the timing i am concerned as it has a massive influence on the guys staying behind.
if we lose the nr 1 and nr 8 aswell it will be a train smash.
We don’t have the depth that other schools has got and therefor the effect on the team is massive.
In 2013 also just before the Beeld play off and league finals we went through the same thing where we lost 5 players to a school in Pta.
That lead to the total demise of the team as how do you replace them a week before a final.
@MikeSt: Please make sure you keep #1.
I really think he is a very good player.
Although they feel flattered by being approached by a “big” school now, they will realise the move is not that easy.
@Playa: @valke: Yes also by Glenwood Playa the nr 1 and nr 8 from EGJ and the Valke
We haven’t had confirmation on that one going back south.
@MikeSt: Were these boys also approached by Glenwood?
@MikeSt: The one that declined, is he the one going back south ?
Just learned now that 3 more EGJ boys were approached by them.
One has already declined and the other 2 is seriously considering the offers.
@valke: If that is the case, then I agree with you. Academics played no part in the decision! I wonder if the parents realise what they are doing to their kid.
If you were in 3 different schools in 3 provinces, then somebody must take responsibility to tell the parents that this is to the detriment of the schoolboy. I would think the receiving school should do this unless the parents relocated to Durban.
I feel sorry for the kid and he will struggle to catch up academically.
@valke: Was busy making the same comment.
If it was an academic move YES by all means. It was at the beginning of the season Monnas and now one term later Glenwood.
Would 3 – 4 weeks max made a massive academic difference.
No one can convince me this is an ethical move with the timing involved.
PARENTS SHOULD TEACH THEIR KIDS THE ETHICS OF LIFE. YOU DON’T LEAVE A JOB UNTIL THE JOB IS FINISHED………………….
@kosie: If you send your kid to 3 schools, in 3 provinces, in 3 terms, in his grade 10 year, do you really think academics played any part in the decision ?
I am not making this statement to, in any way, be disrespectful towards the boy or the parents. I am only saying that a agreement could possibly be reached.
@MikeSt: I agree with you but from an academic point of view the best time to change schools is either the first or the third terms. Therefore I presume the academic priority outweighed the extra curricular activity!
@valke: Exactly my point Valke. The parents just send an sms this morning notifying the parties involved he wont be coming back.
@Grasshopper: In total a number of 7 Boksburg Boys have now been recruited by Glenwood. 6 Grade 7s and now a Grade 10 boy. One of the stars in the team.
Continuous referral is made to ethics when poaching recruiting. Why remove a boy just prior to the most important time of the season. Why not from a schools perspective make an agreement and say yes we would like the player but only after he has finished his season.
@MikeSt: Thought so.
As stated before, I would not blame Glenwood at all for this one.
I have to agree with you that the timing sucks. Maybe a agreement can be reached between the 2 schools that he leaves after the Beeld and League commitments at EG are completed.
Don’t think Glenwood needs him at this stage.
Valke U 16 Captain Martin. Valke yes i agree he is a brilliant player and have no problem with with anyone moving.
Its the timing i am demoer in about. You don’t leave your teammates in trouble 2 weeks before a final and Beeld Trophy play offs. its not ethical at all………
@MikeSt: Pray be told! Who is leaving to go where>
@MikeSt: Not sure who you are talking about, but if it is the kid I think it is, I would not blame Glenwood for this one.
If you can give me a small hint is this regard, I would be able either join you in stoning Glenwood, or try to defend them.
And once again a school does it again by blatantly stealing boys just before important league finals and the Beeld Trophy.
These national weeks is becoming a blatant POACHING WEEK.
And once again i must add i have no problem in boys leaving a school. Just do it in a proper way and don’t leave in at the end of a season.
Finish your commitments cause what is parents teaching kids in life they can just pack their bags whenever they want with no sense of commitment.
Welldone Glenwood………………………….
@Grasshopper:
Vrede
I’m driving up to Durban through Bloem on Thursday & Friday from Cape Town, please could people recommend if there are any schools I could poach from on the way…..I have space for 2 max, on the roof….
I wander how the poaching is going? Quite a few games played already, so the best must be putting their hands up for bursaries by now. I reckon the Namibian change room must be full of Glenwood poachers sorting paperwork and ID’s…
@Ploegskaar: No he is a poepol of the National Party. Imagine Bog and old Andries kortbroek on the same photo. Reminds me of a story of the young boy at the Rand Easter show asking his dad what are they selling at the NP Stall. “Nee my seun” said the dad “hulle verkoop niks nie hulle het klaar alles weg gegee”.
@Ploegskaar: Nee ek dink hy is te skelm vir prokureur. Maar soos reeds gese nie wat hy is maar wie hy is. Ou Shirley dink hoeka daai bloedbelope blou ogies van hom is te cute.
@BOG: So you were a delegate of the previous establishment.
@BOG: Se ons groot asseblief van wie jy praat. Dan kan ek ook se ek ken iemand wat iemand ken wat belangrik is. Groot asseblieg.
@Grasshopper: At a NUMSA meeting?
Gosh, quite a bit of twak to get through there, I shouldn’t go to meetings……shooo….
@Ploegskaar: Thankfully, I do not have to rely on second hand information provided by the media to polish an image. The person who I am refering to, I dealt with quite extensively over a few years to distinguish between fact and fiction
@Tjoppa: Gee my jou adres en ek gee vir jou die besonderhede van n goeie breinshirurg. Ek is dankbaar dat ek uitgesluit is van jou vriendekring. Van vriende gepraat, waar is AT, Speartackle, Duppie, Proppie, Vann Man, Festus, Isak Beyers—. Opvallend hoe hulle almal terselfde tyd verdwyn wanneer jy verskyn en andersom?@Deon: onder normale nugter omstandighede, is ou Tjops nie eintlik kieskeurig nie, maar na 3-4 trekke van sy gelaaide kaskenadetwak, nog minder so. Dan lyk die nagsuster vir hom soos J-Lo. Hy was by die dokter toe die vir hom se- Ek het slegte en goeie nuus vir jou. Die slegte is dat jy Vigs het. Die goeie nuus is dat jy Alzheimers ook het en teen die tyd wat jy by die huis kom, het jy vergeet dat jy Vigs het.
@Tjoppa: So hy is ‘n prokureur?
@Ploegskaar: Wonder waar is Spiesie dink hy werk te hard. Koffiewinkel, Kwekery en bordeel. Alles in een dag. Min mense sal kan byhou.
@Ploegskaar: Beslis.
@Tjoppa: So pelle met Bog wees is uit.
@Deon: Nou is jy die een wat kak praat. Wat sal hy kom soek by ‘n klomp kalkoene. Spelers sal hy nie kry nie en die raad sal hy nie van hou nie. So nee hy was nog nooit hier nie.
Glo hy sal liewer uithang by die kelders en wynplase wat almal sy lof sal besing, omrede dit goeie maniere is, en nie DIE Springbok coach sal kritiseer of indringende vrae vra nie wat rugby kennis verg nie.
@Ploegskaar: Ou Ploeg ek se altyd dit is nie wat jy is nie maar wie jy is wat saak maak. Was nog my hele lewe lank my kriteria as ek pelle maak.
@Tjoppa: Het Heynecke Meyer al by julle ouetehuis kom scout vir spelers? En Rugbyman?
@Tjoppa: Jy oorskat my werklik Tjop, die manne hier wat my ken sal jou sê met die eerste oogopslag kan jy my maklik misgis vir ‘n verlonsde bergie, as ek my mond oopmaak word dit bevestig.
@Deon: Nee die een Nursie is sag op die oog en vandat ons haar leer poker speel, Remy Martin drink, en pyp rook is sy beslis ‘n gereelde lid van die poker aande. Die ander is maar soos gewoonlik ‘n klomp ou suur dikgat anties. Hoor egter ons kry nog ‘n toevoeging hierdie Vrydag aand. ‘n Moffie is aangestel in die kombuis en hy sal die snacks voorsien. Sal hom maar moet verdra weet blykbaar niks van Poker nie en drink net sletsappies. Ou Shirley se sy sal hom met die regte leiding kan convert.
@Tjoppa: Wat jy sê is dat jy aaptwak rook in die ouetehuis? Dit klink na die regte plek om af te tree. Hoe lyk die carers?
@Deon: Verantwoordelikheid het verskeie menings hang af wie dit in watter geselskap gebruik. Ek ken niemand wat sy hart verloor het aan Tassies en aaptwak wat dit nie elke nou en dan nader trek nie. Ongeag.
@Ploegskaar: Ploegie ons almal weet al by hierdie tyd jy is nog steeds boerseuns wat van die grond tussen jou tone hou maar weens jou vermoens skouers skuur met die meer gegoede deel van ons samelewing.
Jou behoue van wie jy is tussen al die grend mense word as voorbeeld gehou vir die kinders wat ons grootmaak. Doe so voort. Ons hier by die kalkoen dorp se almal as ons van jou praat “hy is een van ons mense”.
@Tjoppa: Was?!
@Tjoppa: Nee nee nee, ek het, veral op UStellenbosch en in die SADF beslis my ( en nog ander mense s’n ook) kwota Tassies en pappagaaislaai geniet. Dis die waarheid en niks anders as die waarheid . Ek het wel later baie meer verantwoordelik begin optree.
@Deon: Dan breg jy net, jy drink nie jy vat net sippies met sulke aansitterige tuit lippies. Na die derde bottel Tassies het ek al baie leer aaptwak geniet.
@Ploegskaar: So jy was ook maar ‘n armgat. Siestog wonner of die Hogeres by jou sal kom tong natmaak.
@Grasshopper: Sorry Hopper, Ghandi was an intellectual, he would not have accepted.
@Tjoppa: That sounds beautiful. I am not quite sure if it a general statement or relevant to my post though, which is sadly a legacy of my “lower” education in “lesser” institutions of learning.
@Tjoppa: Van twak rook gepraat. Dis nou die een ding waarmee ek gesukkel het.
@Ploegskaar: So glad my father was a “simple” person and he never bothered to expose me to the “educated” things in life. It enabled me to lead a “simple” but “happy” life. In such a manner that I am at “peace” with who I am and what is “important” in life.
@Umgodoyi: I agree Umgodoyi. I am a parent of my own children, and we have, over the years been the foster parents to three children of different races, for many years.
I learned that, no matter of what race, or how destitude a child may be, he or she will almost always long for a “real” parent. There are certain gaps which just cannot be filled by providing material things, like schooling and sport.
We could provide our house, love, education, whatever, but there is in most, not all (adoption is usually a very different situation), cases a need for a parent that no-one else can satisfy. So taking kids so far away does seem awkward, and all these stories about providing greener pastures to import may be true, but there will always be something missing. And believe me, culture differences can be very challenging.
Having said that, one must keep in mind that schools like Garsfontein, and I am quite sure Glenwood, provide everything possible to the pupils they source far away to be able to see their parents very often, probably even more than the normal hostel dweller, and these schools should be acknowledged for this fact.
Circumstances often determine what it said, context how it is interpreted. The same man also said: “I detest racialism, because I regard it as a barbaric thing, whether it comes from a black man or a white man” and “If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner.”
That’s the beauty of human evolution I suppose, even within one’s lifetime, arriving as a different (sometimes better) person at a different (sometimes better) destination as originally intended. Well, some anyway.
@BOG: Send me your address then I can send you a dictionary. That should help a lot. Google could also help.
@Tjoppa: I am a bit slow or dof. Don’t get what you mean.
@Grasshopper: So when did you guys realise that Afrikaners were better rugby players and changed your criteria from Indian to Afrikaners.
@Grasshopper: You see… the more things change , the more they stay the same.
@kosie: well Ghandi was poached by Glenwood from India…..they search far and wide….
@Grasshopper: Define “good” Would you regard someone who said the following as good or great? “We, members of the communist party, are the most advanced revolutionaries in recent history. However, before a communist world can become a reality, the enemy ( thats non-communists like me) must first be wiped off the face of the earth” I can give you details of where it was said- hidden from public, but nevertheless, said, once you answer my question. But, it would seem that you are allowing the media to determine the meaning and the people to you through the selective distribution of information, ie you are the victim of propaganda, But if its any comfort, there are many in that position.
@Grasshopper: She was recruited (poached?) from the Ottoman Empire. I do however think all parties agreed to the move!
@Umgodoyi: So why is your shirt not white?
@Deon: So do I. A big fan. But making wine in my garage will do. It is like making my own biltong. Simply just to time consuming.
Unfortunately on my pension owning my own vehicle too expensive and with my driving abilities not a good idea. And my garage is the local tavern. This is where we enjoy our wine food and twak with good friends. But too my sadness must admit that we are only allowed get togethers on Friday nights. Some old farts are complaining about the noise, smoke and smell.
Oh yes and being called Tjoppa is much better being called Poepol behind my back.
@Deon: Yes, I chose that name for fun, and maybe appropriate to get under the skin of some who keep harping on about recruiting at certain ages being acceptable. I don’t accept that bringing kids from afar is good for them. Let the EC schools, and they are also good, perhaps Hopper might not call them “great”, not be disadvantaged because of scholarships in Durban. It would be far better to nurture home grown products, and if that makes me racist as Hopper alludes, so be it. I see that he also resorts to using this term when he gets stuck in a debate and doesn’t get his way, just as many politicians continue blaming the previous regime for their own shortcomings.
@Tjoppa: The drinking habits I expressed was that I love good wine. Nothing else. But that is a principle that you will never understand.
The rest was added by a bunch of cheap shots wearing masks like you just because they had nothing else to say.
I am also a garagiste in training, and if all goes well, I will even grow my own wine.
And no, the garage I am referring to does house a Cortina Big Six, that’s your garage.
Sue someone for naming you Tjoppa.
@Deon: But Deon my real name is Tjoppa as all my friends can testify. I do not have a drinking problem. Not according to me. And I rather drink on my own stoep. Where I can not bother others except for ou Lenie next door. My manners and upbringing, as Bog will testify, has some serious short comings. Oh yes and I am not supporting the Bulls or Province. So there now you know me. If it was not for your manners I would also supply my address at the old age home where I am currently residing, and as other bloggers can testify, where we always are ready for a good laugh. Anything else?
Your drinking habits is uhm well known on this blog – as expressed by yourself and some other Bloggers. So therefore already in the public domain. I hope I did not offend you.
@Grasshopper: Both Mr Ghandi and Mother Theresa did good things, true. Was there ever a bigger racist. Many as big yes, but bigger????? Mr Mandela was a great man yes, but Mr Ghandi would not agree with you on that one , merely because of the colour of Mr Mandela’s skin. Enough said.
@Tjoppa: I buy what I drink at Estates and good cellars. Solly’s are for the klippies-and-Coke brigade.
If you feel like making personal remarks at someone blogging using his real name you should take off your mask so that I can also get more personal. Only cowards get personal while hiding.
Influenced the world in a positive way, doing good, you numb skulls….;-)
@Deon: If Hopper must be on this list then surely your photo must hang in the entrance of all Solly’s. Countrywide.
@BOG: I do not think Mr Hopper knows the history of Mr Ghandi. . Mother Theresa yoh yoh yoh.????????? Hopper do some research. By the way you forgot to include yourself.
@GreenBlooded: Pavement Special ?
@BOG: And Genl de la Rey, Glenda Kemp, Steve Hofmeyer and certainly Julius Malema.
@Grasshopper: If that is your definition of “great”, then you need to ad the names of Josef Stalin, Karl Marx and Mao Tse Tung- mass murderers certainly, but by your definition, great.
@Playa: Thank you Playa. Trying my best to learn.
@BOG: A person who has influence globally eg Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandela, Mo Ghandi etc….these are ‘great’ people. If you fishing for what a ‘great’ school is then, Grey Bloem is great!
@Grasshopper: Please define “great”
@Deon: Confirmed. It’s exactly the same in Xhosa
@Umgodoyi: your opinion is your opinion, but to be honest there are a group of bloggers here that are loyal and friends so newbie comments like yours is like water over a ducks back. Not sure how often I say it, I don’t agree with recruitment after grade 8 however the current rules allow it up to grade 10 so all the schools are cashing in now to plug weaknesses, including Westville. If they don’t they will get left behind. I would like the rule to be changed to grade 8 only. Also by saying Xhosa speaking kids don’t represent you is a bit racist in my eyes. A kid picked for KZN does so for a reason. What about the Afrikaans speaking kids in the side, do they represent you? Very short sighted and sad really, especially considering SA’s greatest man was Xhosa. I think Deon has valid points but we don’t have to agree on everything, how boring would that be….it’s called constructive debate…
@GreenBlooded: Thanks. Apparantly its exactly the same in Xhosa.
@Deon: In zulu – the word for dog is ‘inja’. “Umgodoyi” is the word for a mongrel – mixed breed. Not sure about the Xhosa.
@Umgodoyi: I am not sure how to ask you this.
You , as stated, are not Xhosa speaking. I am trying my best to learn isiXhosa, actually the whole family is, but I am the only one in the family going about it formally and since these languages are both Nguni, the question is : “Doesn’t umgodoyi/inja translate into ‘dog’?” And…. it sounds pretty much like “umgodo”?!?!
I really am not poking fun, and I will be very embarrased if I got it wrong.
@Grasshopper: Not surprising your perception of your alma mater’s negative comments with your attempts justifying the unjustifiable. As a born and bred Natalian (first language learnt being Zulu followed by English, in that order, and not Xhosa followed by Afrikaans, a small island must have sprung up in Umbilo!) I find Deon’s comments a breath of fresh air. I am an even newer blogger than he is, but have been reading your drivel for years and reached the stage where I have felt compelled to have my penny’s worth. GW will never achieve much buying players and therefore victories. You probably did not notice my earlier comments re. Natal’s present team of imports. They certainly DO NOT represent me.
Back to reality, just heard very sad news. 17 year old Jordan Kemp in NZ passed away due to brain bleed after clashing heads with an opponent. Such a shock!
@Grasshopper: I don’t think you will find me negative about Glenwood, just their tactics sometimes. I know you disagreed with most of it, but then you pop up on Open Sesame Monday and suddenly conclude that certain tactics are out of order and that agreements are fictitious. Understand if simple towers like me get confused. Truth, I don’t think Glenwood needs the imports, they would be perfectly competitive without them, but seem happy to accept the bad press. I am not rehashing the episodes, just wondering about your change of heart, or adjustable opinion
@rbw1863: well not much positive stuff comes from other bloggers, let say that. I always give credit where it’s due. College best rugga school in KZN history by far, Westville best ‘all round’ gov in the province….both schools doing very good things, 99% positive. But on here it’s 99% negative towards Glenwood. I was also very impressed with Paul Roos, Bishops, Boishaai, Paarl Gim & SACS on my visits there in the past 2 years….
@Grasshopper: Not intellectually superior, but as Gungets points out, your arguments sometimes unintentionally set out to disprove each other. You make good points 9 times out of 10, just sometimes it’s important to take the green glasses off and understand where the other mans argument is coming from. No one here, (apart from a few Westville bloggers
) hates Glenwood the way I think you might believe.
I am not following exactly what you are referring to? If you mean what I think you mean its a valid question I believe.
Radio Sonder Grense is really a very good station. Very informative. Just don’t listen to the boeremusiek competition on Saturday afternoons or the Sunday line-up. It has made sane people go either apeshit. Prison authorities broadcast it the entire Saturday afternoon and Sundays in solitary confinement sections.
The prison authorities initially broadcasted replays of Bulls rugby games 24/7 Many inmates died of boredom. In addition, the authorities noticed a huge spike in jailbreak attempts when they started the project.
The Human Rights Court in Brussels threatened economic sanctions against SA for forcing inmates to watch Bulls rugby, and finally they had to let it go. The inmates now have to watch their own feet 5,5 days a week. The inspectors from Brussels found this more humane and retracted their threats.
@Grasshopper: The prop arrived in grade 10, his parents moved to SA. But that’s hardly the point. You made a statement about recruiting the best at Grade 8 and developing them. Your own post on a previous threat says different. If you are going to debate the point purposefully then debate it, no deflections. I am happy to debate College recruitment if you wish, but not behind a smokescreen.
Like I said, take a stance, stick with it. Don’t go defending the recruitment of Marne in the next breath, it confuses the tow truck okes.
@Deon: I wonder who suggested the whole front row and Polish flyhalf to go to Northwood, Radio sonder grense……also the Glenwood lock, Fullback and Westville scrumhalf to Hilton…….Midlands Meander Herald…
@star: Always gets me chuckling when a Westville oke starts waxing lyrical about the ethics of poaching / recruiting and assuming the moral high ground. I think I’d get the same reaction if I heard Bill Clinton giving a lecture on marital fidelity! Or Lance Armstrong on drug-free sport……
@Grasshopper: Don’t worry about al that Hopper. Those boys in Sischen were not recruited. They were all snow blind due to the desert sun and stark surroundings of the Kalahari. The Government’s traveling optometrist prescribed the greener surroundings of Glenwood, and the Kgalagadi branch of Médecins Sans Frontières will be sponsoring the experience!
Hopefully Glenwood don’t have any agents, poachers or coaches there ‘recruiting’, that would be disappointing. I’m sure there will be droves of other schools scouts on the prowl though….
Sorry I won’t debate anymore as Deon and RBW1863 are intellectually superior……
@rbw1863: My bladder is empty and my shoes are wet.
@rbw1863: farting against thunder…
@Deon: Pissing against the wind here mate
@Deon: Boring, we have covered the reason for Afrikaans kids in Glenwood, College and Westville ad nauseum. Once could call Glenwood a Xhosa team too. As for your chess analogy, just shows you are new on this blog and don’t actually know me at all. I purposely debate, ask questions and stir a bit, it would be boring if I didn’t. Even my old mate Gungets and Star have been lured in of their soap boxes. What Star hasn’t realised is that without all schools spending money on the best coaches and on bursaries they would be in big trouble cue Durban example DHS, now clawing their way out of the abyss with funds from Old boys, selling their Old Boys club and ‘buying’ a CEO in Mike Fennel. It’s a business now and unfortunately only the strongest survive. I’m not saying throw morals aside, I’m saying have a set of rules written down for all to see and signed, not hearsay agreements. Then if a school goes against a rule an overseeing mitigation expert decides on the punishment, be it points docked in a league or a fine or a boycott to play that school. For me as long as every school is treated the same, investigated by the same Auditor and subjected to the same blacklisting and press that Glenwood has received to date then I am happy in the know that it’s fair and honest. I would even like the schools accounts to be made public for all to see……that way it will be transparent and open for all to see. Issue is many schools are doing underhanded things and don’t want to be caught…
@Grasshopper: Thank you Hopper. But why is this relevant to our discussion? What point are you attempting to make? Its lost on me!
Then again, the fact that you see these figures as relevant to our discussion, is actually, in itself, very relevant.
Do you really think this is about comparing PRG to GW? Do you really believe rugby scores and victories in isolation are relevant to this discussion? Then we better leave it be. Not only your point is wasted, but also my time.
You have gone the whole way for me Hopper, no need for me to say any more. You have proven my point beyond doubt, reasonable or unreasonable. An own goal in sudden death extra time.
Engaging in a discussion with you is like playing a game of chess and the opponent deliberately knocks over his own king. The only problem is that you would want to play on even after knocking over your own king, because the last say is so important to you. Please do not quote chess scores between PRG and GW now.
By trying to “unfit” the proverbial shoe, you are pulling those laces even tighter.
I was not aware of our victory against you last year. I was only aware of one of the pre-2013 ones. At the tournament where everyone not in the know started gossiping about the GW boys using Afrikaans instructions on the field, especially during line-out time : “Why oh why are Her Majesty’s own boys using instructions in such a gutteral, West-Continental sounding language? Can it be that these boys are not from the Last Outpost after all? Why?”
Hoe lank is ‘n tou Mnr Springkaan?
@ Gungets- that link was a blast from the past. Seems ou Grassy is talking to ghosts now as he was quite a big contributor on that thread. I was also going to ask the question about what headmasters he had spoken to and still await a response to his statement of fact. Just all part of the green smoke screen and the deflection campaign I am afraid. And then there is the comment about morals and values. I do find your comment about loopholes a bit defeatist though. I honestly believe that the terms of reference were as straight forward as could be. What was needed at the time was the political will of all so called interested parties to see the issue through and a simple statement from Kershaw giving his position would have gone a long way to resolving the issue. If it was an honest misunderstanding as Grassy maintains then it would be a matter of record. What occurred was disengagement and the potential success of any future agreements seriously eroded. The further apart we move the bigger the hole we create and the more devastating the fall off.
@ Grassy- I love the comment about brought success. Do you think that G. Hill is at GW for the love of the institution. And if GW does achieve success in the pool to what will you attribute it to.
@ Deon and @Grasshopper
PS. The best two teams in the United Kingdom come from the City of Liverpool – that being Everton FC and Everton FC Reserves
@Gungets Tuft: LETS MAKE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR FOR YOU, NO RECRUITMENT AFTER GRADE 8, THAT IS MY VIEW. What has happened has happened, it can’t be reversed. Let’s look forward now. Those you mention have been at the school since the current agreement allows so are currently within the agreement. I still don’t agree with it……I think Jonas was grade 9. When did your Zimbo prop arrive…..quite a beast that…
@Grasshopper:
3 Koos Tredoux Grade 10
6 James Venter Grade 10
7 Mac Muller Grade 10
17 Vidima Grade 10
10 Curtis Jonas Grade 10
12 Donny du Randt Grade 9
You say (not really by accident) “well done to them and their Old Boys for spending enough to get the school where it is now.”, but ignore the facts you put on the table yourself. Bought or not, it puts the lie to the statement “Glenwood has not bought success they have brought in the best they can at grade 8 level and nutured them up to 1st team level”
Boet – take a breath. You’re getting all a’froth and have started contradicting yourself. Take a stance, stick to it. For weeks now you have been telling us all how much you are against bringing boys in late, now you are justifying it, even telling us that it is OK. Take a stance, any stance, but I am going to have to start a weekly mood calendar for you so I know what to expect from day to day. Monday’s are “Open Sesame”. Tuesday, we will see.
@Deon: OK, well we support the same football team then, good stuff….at least we can agree on something. I have supported them from the early 80’s through thick and thin….
@Deon: Thanks, last few meetings with Paul Roos;
2008 – Glenwood won 26-7
2011 – Glenwood won 13-8
2013 – Paul Roos won 15-10
Sorry my mistake, last meeting won by Paul Roos.
The only Reds, Liverpool, deur dik en dun, vir botter of vir wors. Not the “Spicedgirledup” fakes with the white shorts.
@Deon: Which Reds? Nuisance…..sarcasm again…..education is the primary role of the school, then extra-mural be it rugby, tiddlywinks, jukskei, debating or chess……47 of those offered at Glenwood…
@Grasshopper: I am a Reds man myself, and have always been, not only now.
It is very understandable when sport clubs buy sportsmen. They do not have that additional nuisance of education, academic and otherwise.
@Grasshopper: Congratulations then.
@Deon: That is why I don’t particularly like Chelsea and Man City, bought success….
@Deon: Yes, I agree with that. Football clubs & rugby franchises must feel very hollow when they win trophies. Glenwood has not bought success they have brought in the best they can at grade 8 level and nutured them up to 1st team level. Along the way some come and go, that is the nature of life….movement for various reasons. Of this years 1st team squad about 15 have been there since grade 8, another 5 since grade 9 and the others since grade 10. I would say it doesn’t matter that they all have not been there 5 years, they all wear the Green with pride and are Glenwood boys, no matter race, language, religion or creed….
@Deon: There was this awesome background music playing in my head while I was reading this
Well said.
@Grasshopper: Was not even aware that our schools have met on the rugby field. We were taught that loosing is not an issue, its part of life, and if you are broadminded enough loosing will never lead to sour grapes. Try your very best, and if you still are not victorious so be it. Just do not remedy your shortcomings by buying victory. Purchased victories are empty victories,and certainly only a last resort and not to be boasted about. The best victories are the ones over yourself and by yourself, and should only provide Old Boys with bragging rights for one year.Its just a game, to be used as an educational tool and a preparation for real life where you mostly will not be able to buy glory.
@Deon: funny that, every post of yours has an element of sarcasm in it and a loathing for Glenwood, maybe it’s because the last meeting between PRG and Glenwood ended in a PRG loss, not sure…..soar grapes maybe. I am aware of all your points, apologies not ‘top’ or ‘best’ just ‘excellent’ or ‘historic’, it’s sematics anyway. The likes of Affies, Boishaai etc should have been in the book, but as you say space was obviously limited. Westville were a spring chicken in the 90’s, barely 40 years old then and had a handful of achievements. They have done extremely well to now feature, well done to them and their Old Boys for spending enough to get the school where it is now.
@Ploeg: Gebruik dan die word soos jy wil – so leer ons ‘n mens se iets oor ander se karakter. Ek sal dit nie doen nie want ek het respek vir die kinders, maak nie saak wat jy dink nie. En ‘n woord verwys nie net na een kant nie, soos jy probeer beweer. In die geval impliseer jy die kind en ouers wat betrokke is het geen brein om te dink nie. Dit is afbrekend. Ek sou eerder na “dubious recruitment methods” verwys as ek net na die een party wou verwys en nie hou van wat hulle doen nie.
Oppas!
@Grasshopper: Cannot recall stating these schools were selected randomly, but I can recall stating he selected a limited amount of historic schools with a history of excellence, subjectively. Sarcasm is a very low form of wit and is usually accompanied by selective reading and memory.
Barry Bristow is not the typical ethnic chauvenist, but I think he authored the book from a slightly Anglophile point of view, with which I have no problem whatsoever, especially since he does not use words like best and top, merely historic and excellent. I also think he wanted to spread his focus among all provinces, as far as possible, and necessarily had to exclude some schools due to limited space.
Then some other very scientific persons choosing to refer to a publication without studying it first, added “best” and other synonyms.
That is why the exclusion of Kearsney and Westville came as a surprise. The only schools who offer Afrikaans as mother tongue medium of instruction are PRG and GCB.
But comparing apples to apples, achievements to achievements, please explain why you think PRG, Glenwood should be included while Paarl Boys’ High, Affies , Kearsney, Paarl Gym, Westville should be excluded?
@Deon: I have the FNB Classic Clashes book, that is a pretty sound book on the top boys schools in SA…..not just for rugby..
@Deon: Do you remember this contentious list; http://homecomingrevolution.com/blog/2013/07/30/100-best-secondary-schools-in-africa/
@Deon: I wonder why he would select random schools…interesting.
@Grasshopper: @Greenwood: The book you are referring to is : Historic Schools of South Africa, an Ethos (or Age??) of Excellence, co-authored by Barry Bristow, among other things well-known rock climber and photojournalist, if I recall correctly.I cannot remember the name/s of the other author. It includes 23 schools. I own a copy, fantastic publication. Buy it, you will not be sorry. Beautifull chapters on Glenwood, Hilton, Michaelhouse,DHS and Maritzburgh.
However you all have very selective memories. The book is about 23 or 13 excellent historic schools according to the author’s opinion. PRG is included in this book, but believe me, it is not a selection of top, or as you guys so easily state , best schools. It does not even aspire to select the best or top schools.
It is a subjective selection and probably states this fact. Not about best or top at all.
Eg, Kearsney, Paarl Boys’ High, Paarl Gym, Westville, Affies etc are not included, and at least these few can compare to any of the schools actually selected, including PRG, on the basis of sport and academic achievement any time. And there will be many more.
Get your facts straight guys, don’t add words like top and best at your own convenience.
@Umgodoyi: No institution remains the same as every headmaster is different. I was there in a time where the headmaster was not obsessed with sports, he allowed the school to excel in whatever sport it had the best pupils in at the time. Our rugby was particularly weak back then, but that was not always the case. Like most schools it had peaks and troughs. I’m just trying to ensure that the school maintains it’s traditions, values and morals. Also quite a few of the rumours and grapevine stuff is unsubstantiated and without evidence. I don’t like this negative perception some people have. They need to go to the school themselves and speak to the kids to get a proper view. It’s like someone commenting on how rubbish the UK is without actually having lived there….
@Grasshopper: as I have already inferred your passion for your old school appears to cloud your attempts to be objective. Apart from its location and buildings it’s certainly not the institution you so enjoyed attending. Its new found success is blurring your perceptions. I doubt you’d have much in common with the majority of today’s teams. If that’s what you want and like go ahead and enjoy YOURSELF.
@Gungets Tuft: point is people made out it was a crime when in fact it was probably a misunderstanding that could have been prevented way before rugby season even started. The school can’t control what his parents did. Anyway, bored now my point is his move was not too dissimilar to that of Marcel Van der Merwe, only that KZN had a verbal agreement about the kid having to be there since grade 10 if not a family move. Funny thing was some schools were playing Under19’s who had failed a year or two but that is OK…..such a farce really….
@Greenwood: Actually you are right, it was the best 20 odd schools in the country and Glenwood was there. This was before any semi-professionalism in sport and Glenwood’s recent achievements in all sports. I too agree we were just your average down to earth kind of good Gov school with a genuine Headmaster in Mike Maher…
@Grasshopper: Then there really is no discussion. I have said many times that laws provide more loopholes than they do controls and your stance now only confirms that.
The HMA predated Marne – why do you think that House, Hilton and Westville withdrew.
Marne’s parents did NOT move to Durban – his father organised a “transfer” to his employers Durban office to legitimise the move. The moment Marne matriculated the farce ended. Marne spent every holiday at the family home in Gauteng. Weekends were spent at his sisters home in Pinetown.
The parents can live in Phnom Penh for all I care, just as long as their offspring arrived before the end of Grade 10. Your comments about 1/2 of House and Hilton parents living in Johannesburg is twaddle.
Anyway, since it now appears we are back to where we were in 2012, let’s just leave it, I am off to research Stockholm Syndrome ….
Hopper – that book on SA’s best schools – the one I saw at
Exclusive Books at the Pav. also about 15 years ago was SA’s Top 21 Schools and a genuine & pleasant surprise for me was to see my old School in the mix . When I was at Gwd many years ago we were just a good Govt School & I think that most of us there at that time had an inferior complex about “School” or the “Other Place” but Boy ! has that changed –
@Gungets Tuft: Yep, these were after the event and due to the event. If there had been an agreement in place at the time of the event there probably would have been no issue from Glenwood. It’s was most likely some sort of verbal agreement never captured in writing. Not sure where Marne’s parents live now it doesn’t matter, it matters where they were then. Again, not sure why the parents having to be in the province is a clause, what about bonafide Boarders. Half of Hilton and Michaelhouse boys parents live in Joberg…
@Gungets Tuft: Oh dear…
@Grasshopper: This one
http://blog.schoolboyrugby.co.za/?p=1389 (pleas enote your own comments)
And this – please note Section 3.4 – and if you wish to discuss it then please let us know where Marne’s parent currently live.
http://blog.schoolboyrugby.co.za/?p=1039
Which headmasters have you spoken to, because the heads of Hilton, House and Westville had no issue finding it back then. The head of Northwood knew where the agreement was, they just decided that since they had 3 U19’s that they would not fight it. College played the ball as it lay but that hardly invalidates the agreement.
Are you being serious – that you don’t believe the HMA has any validity?
@Grasshopper: Sorry Hopper, was not aware of the other agreement.
@Deon: Different agreement you referring to, you talking about the Gov schools agreement from last year. I’ve seen that. In KZN there is some unwritten Headmasters agreement floating around from years back…
@Grasshopper: A link to the agreement was posted on this blog, when it was still news. I think Rugby365 also published it. If you asked headmasters from signatory schools I am worried, very worried…..
Nothing phantom about the agreement.
@Gungets Tuft: Ah yes the phantom Headmasters agreement, now I remember……never seen a copy of it and asked a few headmasters already….they can’t seem to find it either….
@Grasshopper: The uproad in KZN was not about him being poached, or the mechanism by which he arrived, but that Glenwood were trying to field an U19 player that was in contravention of the terms of the HMA. They tried to explain it by saying that his family had relocated, something that later proved to be a smokescreen, aggravated by his very late grade 11 arrival. I know nothing about Marcel, but if Marne had arrived, played club rugby for U19, and attended Glenwood there would have been no issue. That only 3 schools withdrew from matches if he played is besides the point.
Eeisch – rehashing this. Groundhog Day.
@Gungets Tuft: That is the story I know…..what is the difference between him and Marcel, please explain…..feeling a little thick today…
@Grasshopper: Not quite the whole story though hey?
If it was all above board there would have been no need for the rather elaborate story around his arrival. No intention of rehashing it here, but think there should be a little less whitewash as well.
@Djou: Die waarde/betekenis van ‘n woord is relatief tot die spreker, luisteraar, intensie, funksie en konteks. Die wat die term “poaching” gebruik, doen so omdat dit ‘n negatiewe aksie impliseer en afkeur aandui.
Dit het niks uit te waai met die wat “gepoach” word en die karakter van die wat die term “poaching” gebruik nie, dis eerder ‘n refleksie op die wat dit toepas en die wat dit goedpraat.
@BOG: I did mention it…”It might be beneficial for him to move to that province sooner than later to ease the transformation.”…The players will in most cases not be better off or worse off at the new school…
In Marcel’s case, you must remember that the basics was already established when he arrived in Bloem….You just reaped the benefits of a good foundation!
@BoishaaiPa: That was exactly the case for Marne Coetzee at Glenwood from Waterkloof, he was too old to play Craven Week and Beeld Trophy, the Sharks Under19 wanted him but he legitimately had one year left of school. He chose Glenwood but then Glenwood was labelled cheaters, poachers etc. Not sure if it helped his career but he did end up playing Sharks under19 and SA Under20, albeit not having a great tourno in France. Hoping he progresses well this year….
@Woltrui: Kom ek verduidelik waarom dit derogatory is. Dit is verkleinerend teenoor die seuns. As jy die onwetige uitmoor van diere as dieselfde beskou in die geval van seuns wat gewerf word, dan neem jy mos deel aan die verkleinering van die seuns. Daarmee word ook geimpliseer hulle het nie ‘n brein om mee te dink nie. So, hou maar aan daarmee, dit toon net die karakter van mense wat dit gebruik of wys hulle dink nie.
@BoishaaiPa: You omitted to say that he benefited as well- ask him. After all, he is GCBs 43rd Springbok
There are also circumstances where some boys and parents decide on the future career and follow a logical route. For instance a player gets contracted or accepted at an academy in a different province for after school. It might be beneficial for him to move to that province sooner than later to ease the transformation. a Good example is Marcel vd Merwe who moved from Paarl to Bloem in 2009. Firstly because he got contracted by OVS and secondly because he did not qualify for Cravenweeek anymore it was more beneficial for him to already be in the OVS and practise with their u/19’s. It was also of course, by chance, beneficial for Grey as it was logical that Marcel would go there. He was not “poached” by Grey although they benefitted and Boishaai lost out. This was a logical career move and will probably happen again. Sometimes moving from one top school to another is not always a sinister thing but a clear cut career move decided upon by all parties involved.
@bog & predator, agree with you guys. Also, why should a school be seen as bad because they give out more bursaries than another. They should be praised for being able to afford that and raised that sort of money. I do think that bursaries should only be given at grade 8 level though. Scouting at grade 8 level is very different to poaching. Poaching is enticing a player from a local rival to the school, so like Hilton poaching 2 recent Glenwood under16a captains. I think recruitment from schools in other provinces is less of an issue, especially if the schools in those provinces are 2nd tier as it’s an improvement for the boys giving them a better opportunity. Example, most of Glenwood’s eastern cape recruits were from township schools. They unfortunately got burnt by boys being over aged. Recruitment from a tier 1 school is a definite no no, unless the boy is under19 and can’t play in local leagues and cups…
@BOG: David se ” geraasmaak” het hom ook die Laurence Olivier toekenning besorg vir die beste nuwe produksie aan die Londonse West End, nl vir Kat and the Kings. Natuurlik saam met Taliep.
The poaching thing has one benefit and that is without a doubt that kids from “off the radar schools” with talent get an opportunity to play on a platform that could open doors for them in their future. This is in my opinion good practice, but poaching kids from other good rugby schools can only be to the benefit of the “poaching” school and their rugby ego/status. This is not in the best interest of the kid. Why should we argue about bursaries,..maybe some feel offended that their school is implicated,..so what, or maybe some people are angry that they were not approached with an offer. It is also a fact that academics and other rellevent requirements for being a top school is in place and this must surely be a bonus for attending these schools,.. more than often they excel at other things as well.
A big concern for me is that at these schools the focus is so intense on making the first team that more than often hugely talented kids are overlooked and maybe not developed enough and replaced with a “import” . This is also not good.
I must admit that I encourage any parent that has approached me in the past to rather focus on academic performance which is in your hands , more than a rugby future that is so often in the hands of bias and incompetent people. The senior rugby pyramid is a small space if you take in account the thousands of kids playing and hoping for a contract at the unions.
Parents be aware!!!…… the scouts , poachers, are ruthless in their quest to stock their schools with the best talent,..You are the gatekeeper of your kid’s balanced future not the financial offers that will blind your objective decision.
I have witnessed brilliant talent at matches of the not so relevent schools and often wondered if the system that is employed today could be run more efficient to the benefit of all.
@Deon: David Kramer het ook n doktorsgraad ontvang van Stalinbosch, vir “geraasmaak”. Dit sal dus n goeie riglyn wees om te glo, presies die teenoorgestelde van wat hy se.@Deon: @Grasshopper: Poaching is certainly taking place over a very wide front and to deny it, would be less than honest. “But, on the other hand”, to attribute migratory patterns, all to poaching, is equally incorrect. The increase in migration in recent times, from smaller towns / dorpies (like the boys from Durban and CT going to Bloem) have more to do with declining standards in those smaller centres than with poaching. I recall, decades ago, how kids traveled from all over the country and beyond, to Bloem , QT ect, to attend the schools of their choice, mostly because one of the parents had a bond with that particular school.But politics HAS intervened and reduced the numbers to choose from. With the re-opening of school, the train from the EC to Bloem was full of kids on their way back to various schools and had NOTHING to do with bursaries. But now, if a child travels from one centre to another- its poaching/ buying. And just for the record. Until recently, around 30% of GCB s learners were boarders. Only now (last year) have they increased capacity to around 40%. But if you ask my opinion, it has probably more to do with declining standards in the schools feeder areas (and a reduction in choice)
@Grasshopper: I respect your attitude Hopper and that is why I politely ask you these questions. Perhaps you are one of the only ones I can get a realistic answer from. Perhaps the reason for all this is fair, just intriguing.
I would love to hear the entire story surrounding your friend’s son and how it fits in to the official PRG statement. I am sure it will comply perfectly.
My father-in-law, FPJ Smit, was the headmaster at Tygerberg for many years (and my wife is an ex-pupil). He loves the school to pieces, and speaks about the school as often and in the same fashion you speak about Glenwood. He hates any form of recruiting, since Tygerberg was often at the receiving end and lost many star players during his tenure, but never once to PRG during all those years. Not even one approach, by an Old Boy or even a distant relative of anyone connected to PRG as far as he is concerned.
@Deon: firstly, it’s not me doing any of this unsubstantiated recruiting, I’m just an old boy who wants the best for my alma mater. I am the first to question the headmaster, chairman of the old boys and coach if any dodgy rumour starts. Up to now they have not disclosed much to be honest, I’m probably seen as an annoyance but I won’t stop until I have answers. I do not and will never support poaching or recruitment. I think if Glenwood have 45 bursaries all I ask for is for the bursaries to be announced and each boys name disclosed. I can tell you that no school is fully clear of not having chats with grade 7 boys to entice them to a school. It’s up to the school to promote themselves and then the parent to decide. So ultimately it’s the parents fault if they accept offers. A lot of the negativity around Glenwood has been created by competing schools. I’m not saying they are completely innocent but many stories are not substantiated or proven. As for PRG my mates son was going to Tygerberg but is now at PRG on a bursary, fact!
@Grasshopper: Again the old story about the Northern Suburbs and scouting. Always the same old urban legend.
In essence distance really makes no difference to the degree of acceptability pertaining to the principle of importing, but it may be interesting to note that the Northern Suburbs are probably 30 kms from PRG. A shorter distance than many a mom’s taxi travels to drop kids at school, leaving home at 07h30.
Tell your good friends in the Northern Suburbs to contact me so we can put it all in the clear and clarify how the official PRG statement applies to this perceived scouting in the Northern Suburbs, the Hottentots Holland Kom etc, for everyone to see. I give you my word that I will apply myself to the task without mentioning the name of any boy or parent on this blog. I am not at all concerned. PRG has the pride and honour to make an official statement in this regard for all to see. Perhaps you should consider doubting these good friends’ integrity and motives. Perhaps they are just trying to keep up with the Jones boy next door’s achievements? Perhaps there are really PRG scouts, but their actions conform to the official statement I mentioned?
But take the discussion to the next level. How many of your good friends in Sischen, De Aar, Koekenaap, Prieska, Pofadder, Agenys, Boksburg, Baardscheedersbosch, Durban, Umbilo, Umgeni, etc have kids who were approached by these “cloak and dagger” scouts from PRG? Whereas the kids in these places are really “fair game” to GW.
If GW do not need to do what they do, why do they do it Hopper? Maybe the teachers are bored? Perhaps again the philantropic duty to the larger, much much larger SA? Perhaps GW’s urge to perform some patriotic deed and develop the sovereign Republic of South Africa? Perhaps providing greener environments to these kids who have by now become completely snowblind due to the stark and bleak surroundings their unloving parents make them inhabit?
Do you not need to recruit learners, or do you actually not need to recruit a significant portion of the talent to remain relevant as a rugby school? The difference is vast.
I am sure it is an honour to be acknowledged as one of SA’s top 100 schools. GW surely deserve to be there. The problem is that many will soon start to believe that GW received this honour in part due to its purchased rugby (perhaps other) prowess.
I am not one of those doubters, yet. However antics like the case of the Jan van Riebeeck boy, the Tom debacle ( wasn’t he from the Eastern Cape?) are becoming more and more expected from GW due to this strange feeding frenzy you engage in. And while many schools engage in different levels and forms of recruiting, it is really only GW and two or three other schools that come to mind when these extremeties are discussed. I mean, headmasters have threatened criminal cases of eg abductions against other schools. Towards what low level are these schools driving our SBR in SA? And it is strangely these schools who use that lame comeback : ” Everybody does IT ( with no reference to level or form, or substance for that matter) they just do not admit it”
I remain perplexed at the motivation behind this, and I fear the final outcome if we already have threats of abduction cases and …….
@Grasshopper: Parents take this all too seriously and along with the schools are the cause of this current trend. Period. There aren’t too many provincial blazers at SNR level up for grabs each year. Patrick Lambies Grand Father said the wisest thing to him pre his rugby career choice, “get a qualification” No doubt that will be misinterpreted by Muzi, High Tackle and Co, but schools are feeding off this precious mentality parents have about their kids skills and it won’t change soon, why would it.
@Deon: that is not what a few friends of mine in Bellville, Durbanville and other northern suburbs say. Quite a few of the best northern suburb boys have been scouted by Paul Roos. Glenwood does not have to recruit as you claim, they too are a great old institution that relies on their reputation to attract kids. Some 700 odd applications are made each year for 250 positions, no need to recruit. Scouting is different and been a legit practise for years. My best friend went to Kearsney after being scouted at a tennis tourno, it’s reality. Parents are looking further afield for better opportunities as the likes of Grey Bloem have limited positions too….think about it. There is a book released about 15 years ago of the greatest 100 schools in SA, Glenwood is there….
@mikest – the IQ thing worries me a bit…see, if there was an IQ that could make a comment that would be one thing…be that as it may, there certainly was thought that went into your comment wrt GW stealing EGJ boys – how can you honestly throw stones when you live in a glass house. I mean how absolutely ridiculously absurd is that, YOU are obviously not a brainbox yourself…
@BOG: Het jy al die song van David Kramer gehoor : ” Bloemfontein is the kakkest place I have ever been”? Hy was seker nog nie by die Lesotho/Oos-Kaap grens nie?
@Grasshopper: If a boy arrives at Glenwood, from say Durban, or from Natal or wherever because he approached the school and applied for admission he is not an import. If Glenwood goes to a primary school in Sischen, Swellendam, Durban, Putsonderwater or the East Rand and recruit the player to join Glenwood, and in addition at direct or indirect monetary gain, he is a purchased import. That conforms to the definition of an imported “commodity” and as such none of us can choose what is to be seen as an import and what not. Such a boy is at most merely a younger import than a boy arriving in grade 10. If Glenwood is compelled to go to such extreme lengths to purchase imports, there is something very wrong at Glenwood, perhaps due to fair (but unknown to me) external circumstances out of their immediate control such as politics. Another reason may be being surrounded by better schools who draw talent by providing bursaries to boys approaching them, or without providing bursaries. To me as a non-resident of Durban, Westville is the most obvious candidate for being such competition, with academic and sport achievements (lesser so than GW wrt rugby) as a whole second to none in SA , and then Maritzburgh, the “re-rising stars DHS”, and the world-renowned private schools of Natal. No doubt there has been recruiting issues at many of those schools, but I doubt whether to the same degree as GW, or whether they approach primary school kids in Sischen, refer to them as “fair game”etc. A school that approaches in such a manner is nothing but a beggar, and more often than not a beggar is a beggar because he cannot choose. A bit of an anomaly though, a beggar who pays! Your reference to the kids at GCB from all over the country is therefore gleamingly irrelevant. There is no need for GCB to do what GW does. So don’t even try and justify what you have to do by pointing at other schools, and don’t even point fingers and say everybody does it but deny it and all that crap. Everybody does not do what GW apparantly has to do to remain relevant.Rather inform me why you have to do so. I appreciate your passion for your school, but that passion has clouded your mind and blinded you to reality. Visit the PRG website, see PRG’s official statement by the vice-rector for sport, see how scholarships are awarded in an honourable way, for both the school and the boy, without anyone approaching any boy. The boy approaches PRG. After admission, and only after admission, PRG will even mention the word scholarship, and in many cases, if a boy does qualify for scholarship, the school still have to find a sponsor. Official policy: No approaching a schoolboy by anyone, no old boy, no one, and enticing a boy to join PRG at remuneration is unethical. We are an academic and educational institution, not a rugby club. As I understand not even such a bursary has been provided by PRG during the past three seasons. I have not confirmed this as other than being member of the OBU I am not connected to PRG. My source, very active in SBR, but also not connected to PRG in any way, is very reliable. And the Old Boys as a rule feel that if, due to this policy, we loose our position as a known rugby school in SA, so be it.
@Djou: “I use recruitment as I found poaching to be derogatory…” Nee wat kom ons roep dit op die naam. Ons probeer dit nie verdoesel nie. Poaching is dit en poaching sal dit bly.
Vir my gaan dit nie oor kinders wat skole wissel ens weens omstandighede nie. Dit is verstaanbaar.
Skole wat egter uitgaan en skoliere koop en hulle eie kinders dan van geleenthede BEROOF. Ek het geen benul hoe diesulkes hul kinders tov sekere waardes soos LOJALITEIT kan skool nie. Ongelukkig moet die Skoolhoofde wie dit voorstaan en ondersteun pa staan dat hulle dit toelaat.
@Grasshopper: you are justifiably proud of your school. I just wonder,though, whether the school has the same spirit it had when you were there, also when the Goulds, Aylwards, Madsens were there??
And you are quite correct regarding the other schools and double standards. But two or more wrongs don’t make a right. Yes, kids need every chance to give them a better future which is perhaps why Sishen might be a poor example, but I don’t see why luring or poaching the best of say, Queens or Dale to Natal, the Free State, Joburg, PE etc is really for the good of anyone. Boarding is quite often beneficial (I boarded for eight years in Natal as the nearest high school was 80km away over dirt roads) for various reasons, including simply wanting to attend a certain school, going to the same school as previous generation etc. but it can be cruel for a ten or twelve year old to be a long way from family and friends, different language and culture. As a ten year old I felt sorry for myself until I realised what classmates from Zambia, Rhodesia, Mozambique and Kenya must have been going through. I also old have found it more difficult had I gone to a non English speaking school. A Xhosa speaking kid from the Eastern Cape must find it quite difficult to adapt to boarding in Pretoria or Durban compared to Queenstown or KWT?
@Umgodoyi: firstly if a boy arrives in grade 8 he is not an importer is part of the normal intake. Glenwood have always had boys from all over KZN attending, they have a BE that can take 250. In my day boys from Richards Bay, Vryheid, Mtubatuba, Port Shepstone, Kokstad etc. Once a Glenwood Boy always a Glenwood boy no matter language, religion, race or creed. If a boy is academically or sporting strong why shouldn’t they benefit from a bursary or scholarship? Glenwood lost many boys to the privates over the years due to bursaries. Also people seem to think the school has unlimited funds, incorrect it’s a tightly run ship. 40 to 45 bursaries a year, not all 100%. I can tell you now Paul Roos and all the big schools hand out bursaries. Now that Glenwood has a professionally run sports academy parents are approaching them, far more parents than available bursaries. So why shouldn’t Glenwood accept the best kids in the country? Why should they only accept Durban boys? Look at Grey Bloem half the school ain’t from the Free State. Double standards being applied here just because Glenwood are now on the radar. Also note Glenwood is not a newcomer they are a school with a proud 105 year history and played rugby since 1912, earlier than many other schools. We are not new kids on the block Garsies, Waterkloof etc….we are a traditional school with traditional values. What happens on these blocks people pick up the wrong stories and negative perceptions are formed. Glenwood have unfortunately had three incidents recently, Tom-gate, Marne-gate and VanRiebeeck-gate. Not great but hopefully the school has learnt their lesson and will move on. It’s a great school doing it’s best to survive these tough times for gov schools….
@boxkick: Seeing that you are SUCH a Knowledgeable person on the matter and subject I would have thought you would make a comment equal to an IQ of 66.
lease read on what I have said properly think about it and then make an informed comment ……………..
Just because it was done in the 60s or even earlier doesn’t mean it is right. One can nearly always justify decisions and choices, but how moral is the concept of pillaging “inferior” schools of their best pupils, whether sporting or academic. They would not have a hope in hell of ever improving. This particular example (Sishen) mightn’t be the most appropriate to argue a case for. What is the point of having a school in Durban with two or three teams better than the first team of their neighbours eg. GW or WV on one side and DHS, or PN, or NW on the other? This at the expense of schools a long distance away eg. Border/EC. And it can lead to situations such as the infamous Wethankyou Thom dilemma. Do you honestly feel the same pride as you did when you were at school? Taking it a step further as an old Natal supporter I certainly don’t have the same feelings today with a team of imports as I did to with supporting the struggling teams of the 70s.
Could also be this school:
http://www.schools4sa.co.za/school-profile/hoerskool-kathu/
http://www.schools4sa.co.za/school-profile/sishen-intermediate-mine-school/
Phone the principal – ask him/her what he thinks of the kids moving to Glenwood. I’ll bet he/she is very happy for them…..
@Umgodoyi: I agree that if schools find their opponents to be morally reprehensible they should boycott them – it is a far more noble stance than complaining on a blog. They just need to make sure that their own house is in order so that they cannot be accused of a pot-kettle situation. We must also recognise that there are parents that sign off on all of these moves too – so they should also bear some responsibility.
The case of the Sishen boys: they move from a mine school no doubt run by Khumba Resources (the mining company) in a one horse mining village in the Kalahari to one of the top boys schools in the country in one of the countries premier cities. I really don’t see a problem here. If the boys are keen, the parents are keen and the school is keen then what is the problem? These boys will benefit greatly. The parents must think they have won the lottery……..
@Umgodoyi: as I have said as nauseum on here I do not promote buying & poaching but at grade 8 level bursaries and scholarships have been given to the best kids for decades. Even in the 60’s my dad said DHS used to give bursaries. At the moment in KZN it’s so aggressive from all the schools some have to look in other provinces to compete. Westville gives out 60 plus bursaries a year, try to compete with that….
@Deon: Could not agree more with you. The best way of dealing with this problem is simply to boycott such schools. Poaching Year 8 pupils is just as reprehensible or perhaps even worse. it needs to be eliminated at all ages. @Grasshopper I undrstand your loyalty to your alma mater but your and your old school’s methods are reprehensible. Pupils should want to go to schools because of their quality and of their own volition and not lured by greed.
@Grasshopper: Thats fine, but how many do you have in the SA schools sheep sheering (?) side?@BoishaaiPa: Tempe gives you a distorted impression, while Stalinbosch gives me an exaggerated view.
@BOG: No Thanks , because it will be a very subjectve review…But knowing your tunnel vision towards the vlakte I suspect Durbs and Die Bos is not in the top 1!…Having spent some time in The Vlakte I know where my preferred dwelling is!
@Deon: yes Deon, Glenwood have bought all 1,250 boys there…..
YAAAWWWWWNNNNN. Time for bed………
@Grasshopper: Glenwood buying/poaching hockey players too? Glenwood is not a rugga school anyway, its a ruggabuyingoutfit.
Congrats to the four Glenwood boys making SA Schools A&B hockey teams! http://www.schoolsportsnews.co.za/hockey/sa-schools-hockey-team-boys/
Glenwood not just a rugga school!
@GreenBlooded: forget about Sishen, Glenwood should be trying to get Kaide Pardey, the son of legend Glenwood prop Leyton and nephew to Barrett. I hear he is off to Westville as they live in Westville. The kid has scored 100 tries in one season!
Pinotage – if schools refused to play against or invite schools that poach, entice bursary, hunt, scout etc, players it will be a very lonely and small tournament.
@mikest – that’s pretty rich coming from you…I remember some time ago in the newspaper there was an article of a EG Jansen people arriving at a school in Vereeniging to collect a child from that school to enrol him at your school…but that seems to be within the rules of engagement no?
@BOG: I’m all ears. …..
@Grasshopper: Going by what you have said, you may have squeezed through with an academic bursary- just. And believe me, if you had been offered one, you would not have declined.@GreenBlooded: @BoishaaiPa: Having gone to school only in Bloem, “studied” in Stalinbosch, and lived in Durbs for a while, would you like an impartial assessment and opinion on the 3 locations?
@BoishaaiPa: Good for them. Brave parents though – going to be tough being so far away but it can only be better than Sishen. There is only so much iron ore one can look at without getting bored.
@GreenBlooded: Not one..but 4!
@Grasshopper: Sishen???? Did you say SISHEN??? The only places worse than Sishen are Secunda and Lohatla – trust me I’ve been to all 3. Greener pastures from Sishen are not difficult to find. Durban will be like heaven for the lad. What was he offered? I’m sure just bus fare would do the trick……
@BoishaaiPa: have you thought that maybe the parents in Sishen are potentially looking for greener pastures? I can say if I was offered a bursary at Grey Bloem when I was in Durban I would have gone….no 2nd thought….
@Deon: not sure what school you talking about, but kids in other provinces or their parents actually approach some of these schools….
@Predator: Ja, maybe so, but whichever way you look at it, somewhere, someone is still getting screwed .. and with all that fumbling going on that’s just never fun …
@Grasshopper: Not saying it is a sin, just sharing some info…Sishen is a long way from Durbs though…the net is getting very big!
@BOG:
What would of course not be unconstitutional is simply for those who toe the line, not to play against the crooks. Not to invite them to the festivals etc. Let them play with themselves and boast that if they only had the chance, they would beat the best.
@knowthegame: Nee wat..jy sit die pot ver mis…ons wag nie tot CW om die regte seuns te te trek nie…jou aansoekvorms moet al laaank voor Meimaand in wees as jy wil plek kry!…Kry vir jou n ander bynaam want jy ken beslis nie die game nie!
Die koop van spelers is uit en uit die skuld van die unies, die unies het keurders aangestel wat jaarliks spanne kies om die provinsies te verteenwoordig. ek kan julle se dat van daardie manne minder van rugby af weet as rolbal maar nie te min hulle het dan uitgegaan en dan die topskole se kinders gekies jaar in en jaar uit. dit het die skole in n posisie gesit om kinders te werf met die woorde kom speel by my want dan sal jy gekies word want in n onbekende of klein skool sal jy dit nie maak nie. dit is mense wat kinders moet opvoed wat sulke goed aan seun en hulle ouers uitblaker, wat doen so kind en die se ouers hulle skuif die kind. DUS se ek dit is die unies se skuld…………………
Vra die werwers hulle weet en hier is n paar van julle op die blog
I think ” schoolboy poaching ” is like teenage sex,…everybody thinks everybody else is doing it,….and those that are doing it,…. is not doing it correctly ! …just a thought on a problem that will be with us for ever,..and a day.
Aan al die poachers daarbuite. SWD se Grant Khomo span is ‘n grap, nie eers naasteby die beste spelers in die streek nie. Julle sal ongetwyfeld julle geld mors. Die scores sal dit bewys.
@maroon8: Dit was net ‘n tong in die kies verwysing na vd Berg en Stander wat eers in HS Brackenfell was en Jaco Willemse wat in Landbou was.
@Patat70706: Jy kan hoeveel ballas hê, maar dit vat tyd om aan te pas by ‘n nuwe stelsel, veral as die gevestigde tradisie teen jou tel.
@Ploegskaar: met die 3 manne wat se name jy noem
@Cappie: Al wanneer die kind ongelukkig sal wees, is wanneer hy nie BALLAS het nie.
Weens die ouers hom op piep
@Tjoppa: DIT is hoekom ons Rugby van vandag een groot GRAP is.
Dink SARU moet staan vir Presidentskap binne die regering.
Geld koop nie mense nie, maar bevordering.
Geld om n Toernooi te hou ja. Nie om die ouers ryker te maak nie.
Boishaai and Glenwood in same league re – recruiting
@Patat70706: Ten spyte van die kind se geluk by die skool? In meeste gevalle (daar is uitsonderings) is jou alma mater (daar waar jy in skool was in gr 8 en 9), die plek waar jou hart die warmste klop. Dit vat een tot twee jaar om geluk by ‘n nuwe plek te vind, en ‘n kind wat in gr 11 by sy nuwe skool aankom, het bitter min kans tot geluk. So, Poachers, ouers en al julle moegoes wat die ding wil goed praat, dink aan die kind… asb!
@BoishaaiPa: surprise -not Boishaai
@Patat70706: Vroue se jy………. Ten minste kan vrouens hulle mans se raad vra……………
@Patat70706: Geld ou patats geld. So reeks is slegs moontlik as groot borge betrokke raak. Dankie Enrista.
@Tjoppa: Wel as dit die sport in ons land bevorder, waarom nie?
Julle baklei erger as VROUE. Bevorder sport en die speler!!!!! dit is die beste resep.
@maroon8: Bedoelende?
@Rugbyman: Nou dan het julle mos nie die regte resep nie RM. Want dit is tog hier Gapsfontein wat inkoop.
Was nou die aand by die Enrista reeks se eerste games. Lekker rugby gesien asook ‘n paar seuns wat baie bol het. Net jammer geen agente sigbaar nie. Maar baie geluk aan Enrista en Willem. Hoop julle kan die landwyd laat plaasvind.
@Ploegskaar: ek wonder of jy weet wat aangaan ?
@Djou: Amen!
@Djou: Hang af waarvoor hy daardie vinger gebruik.
@kosie: Kosie I ask you nicely to shut the Fcuk up if you do not know the reason, of the people you are referring to. This is all I am asking. I personally know this family and their reason was of such a nature if my child had to experience what theirs did I would have killed the person involved and have all the teachers involved dismissed.
So please you seem to be an intelligent and sincere person. Do not implicate people if you do not have the facts.
@Kosie: Ja, sien wat jy bedoel – en die duim is die kortste en dalk dikste, maar dit sal die verkeerde boodskap gee.
@Djou: Dit moet die middelste een wees want dit is die langste vinger
@Cappie: Asseblief, hoop nie dit is die middelste een nie. Indien die middelvinger die grootste is, voer gou ‘n ander vinger steroids.
@Rugbyman: Die kind en die ouer moet saamstem oor die skuif, solank daar nie ‘n omkopery betrokke is nie! En, ek praat nou regdeur die bank, en wys nie vinger na iemand spesifiek toe nie, maar na almal wat hulself skuldig maak hieraan. En as dit Klub600 is, dan is my langste vinger uit. Omkopery op skoolvlak is ‘n virus!
@Kosie:
I hear you!
@Djou: This is a Friday afternoon and this Hemi is only running on 2 cylinders so the output may not be the same as when the Hemi runs on 8 cylinders!
Now, now, just mention the word poach, and you create sensationalism.
Nothing new added to the debate as the same bloggers repeat their viewpoints over and over – as if they will convince the other bloggers. Or when some lie stating that they don’t recruit, try to convince the others that they are not lying.
I use recruitment as I find poaching to be derogatory and just plain mean.
I find Ploegskaar’s comment on the proposal refreshing, but somehow, I believe it will never fly. What will happen if a school refuses to pay? It will be difficult to prove that a boy did not want to move out of own accord. And you can’t charge development costs – just ridiculous. If I move to another school because I deem their maths department to be better, should I now pay development costs to my previous school. You already paid your school fees – and that is the development costs.
If this proposal is indeed implemented it will be done by people not thinking the consequences through. A typical case of IATROGENICS.
Court cases galore upcoming and who is going to pay for that? The schools?
@Rugbyman: Ja ja in ons ou dorpie! Net jammer dis daar by die mark, jy weet ook wat naby die mark is! Kon aan baie beter plekke dink
@kosie: natuurlik… dis mos volgende week grant khomo…
@Rugbyman: Ek ken jou as ‘n beskeie mens! Jy het mos die boek geskryf “Modesty and how I achieved it”.
Grappie!
Jy is reg, ouers en kinders moet saamstem tot ‘n skuif. Baie keer wil ouers voorskryf aan hul kinders en dan kom daar pyne. Die skool waar die kind heen gaan moet ook so ‘n kind laat welkom voel anders werk dit ook nie!
@kosie: in my beskeie opinie is n skuif verkeerd as die kind en ouer NIE inkoop nie… die ouers en die kind moet wil skuif, anders gaan daar mos nooit gelukkigheid wees nie…
Net my opinie…
@Rugbyman: Is jy terug van jou ekskursie in die laeveld? Welkom terug!
@Bulle: dis hoekom ek permanent op die blog moet wees… om sekere individue reg te help as hulle k@k praat…
@Bulle: Ek het dit so verstaan. Wat wou sê is om aan te sluit dat ouers baie keer besluit neem, en ek moet glo in belang van die kind, maar dat die kind nie altyd die besluit ondersteun nie.
Daar is ook baie gevalle waar kinders ‘n skool wil verlaat en die ouers net sê nee. Ek dink wat Cappie wil sê is dat nie alle skuiwe altyd tot almal se voordeel is nie
@Rugbyman: Gee net die regte feite deur. Niks met Affies te doen nie, Jy keer ma net so lekker as die verkeerde feite deurgegee word.
@Rooibaard: I merely conveyed that there is such a proposal in the pipeline, not my idea and I’m not involved.
Gavin vd Berg, Ruan Stander, Jaco Willemse.
@Bulle: dis altyd vir my interessant hoe vinnig julle affie manne op die verdediging gaan oor die onderwerpie…
@Cappie: partykeer wil kinders skuif… ek weet jy glo dit moeilik, maar dit gebeur ook soms…
@kosie: Cappie beskuldig niemand Affies en AHMP is twee verskillende skole as jy dit nie geweet het nie, so as die sussie ongelukkig was is dit nie AFFIES nie maar AHMP. As sy dan geskuif het om haar boetie het dit mos niks met die skool uit te waai nie dit is haar besluit gewees.
@Cappie: Ek verstaan wat jy bedoel, dis nie die tipe bemarking waarna ek verwys nie. Ek verwys ook nie na EG nie, ek sluit net aan by Grasshopper en Mike se gesprek, en verwys na hoofsaaklik die absoluut bisarre aksies van Glenwood om relevant te bly.
@Rugbyman: Ek hoor jou, maar ek sê dis ‘n onding teenoor die kind! Punt, klaar en uit!
@Rugbyman: Welkom Mr R slapie gevang?????
@Cappie: ek gaan nie eers betrokke raak by die argument nie… glo dit nou maar… AL die top skole bemark tog maar na gr.8 ook so bietjie…
Ploegskaar, in plain language – I’m opposed to the poaching of players. The reason I say it is born dead is because legally it is not enforceable. Not only will it be regarded as unconstitutional (Thanks Bog) but the South African Schools Act (1996) that controls the movement of learners between schools will not recognise such a system. Find something that will work.
By the way – who are Stander, Van der Berg and Willemse ?
@Cappie:
@Deon: Understand me correct, if I say “Gesonde Bemarking”. This is, if you visit the Primary schools in your area, and you tell them about your school and explain to them the values they will experience if they go to that school, not paying them to attend your school, but showing admiration if they do attend.
@MikeSt: Also true, but the instigators that lights the fire, is the “Poachers”, albeit who ever, and for that matter even if it is Klub600. “YOU ARE BUSY WITH WRONG DOINGS!” All YOU care about is your own Anthill, and to have some sort of bragging rights. For what? It only lasts for that year, and then… I wish this topic can be smothered in mud.
@MikeSt: Its not a sin, but if a school is compelled to go to such an extent to remain competitive, especially if the school is an established institution of almost 100 years, there must be something very lacking at the school. Schools referring to grade eights as fair game obviously have poacher mindsets. So, while approaching kids at primary schools hundreds of kilometres from your own feeding area may not be illegal, it will always be frowned upon. Masking these ridiculous actions as philantropic deeds or ” good for development” will not change the public’s opinion of such a school. Schools like these will always have to approach significant proportions of the talent they “land” , sufficient amounts of talent will never approach them.
@kosie: Dit is juis my probleem. As jy jou keuse gemaak het by watter skool jy wil wees, behoort jy nie sommer te verander as dit nie hoef nie. Ek weet van ‘n ou wat uit eie wil van John Vorster na Affies toe geskuif het in graad 11, hy het wel eerste span gehaal, maar hy was nooit regtig gelukkig nie. Die ander seuns wat van graad 8 af daar was, het hom nooit laat tuis voel nie. Hierdie sogenaamde “Poachers”, en ek gee nie om van waar hulle af kom nie, weet nie watse onreg hulle die kinders aandoen nie. Dit maak my siek! Ek weet ook van ‘n ander meisie wat na AHMP toe is in graad 11, en sy was ook sielsongelukkig.
@Grasshopper: I agree with you even though GW is stealing the EGJ boys.
The problem is not the poachers / agents / scouters ITS THE PARENTS WHO IS THE PROBLEM AND THEY WANT TO HORSE TRADE THEIR KIDS FOR MONEY, BENEFITS AND THEN PLAY SCHOOLS OFF AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.
Oh yesssss and don’t forget the bullshit they can talk My kid gets a bursary ++ then the next person my kid kids a bursary ++++++ and so it goes on.
@BoishaaiPa: nothing wrong with recruitment at under13, since when was that a sin?
@Cappie: Ek kan getuig van ‘n man (toe nog ‘n seun) wat in die 2 de kwartaal van gr 10 geskuif het vir sogenaamde persoonlike redes. Sy sussie het ook geskuif na Affies meisies. Raai wat?
Vlg jaar is sy in gr 11 en gaan weer na haar ou skool. Was om vir boetie se onthalwe affies toe.
So ons moet maar versigtig wees as ons beskuldig
Challenge. How many U16 players from the FS, the area with the least money, will this year be enticed / poached elsewhere? I say, none!@Playa: Another name for GCB, is House of Fetchers (HOF )eg, Brussouw, Stegmann, Bismarck,d P, Coenie O—. They develop their own- why would they go to the EC for them?
@Rugbyman: Daar is niks fout met gesonde bemarking op laerskole vlak om kinders na jou skool toe te lok nie, maar om hulle in graad 10 oor te koop, en hulle Hoërskoolloopbane op te donner is vir my ‘n probleem.
@Rugbyman: Ag jy dink ook jy weet alles. Dis ouens soos julle wat openlik ongevoelig hierdie virus aandryf. Di sal julle nog byt!
@Cappie: paar klub600 manne gaan dan ook ongemaklik loop… kyk maar uit vir hulle…
Die hele storie raak siek. Dis ‘n onaangename virus! Kinders word ontneem van hulle regte. Op die langtermyn lei net die kind daaronder. Ek is getuie waar kinders wat in atletiek presteer van Affies af na Monnas toe gelok is vir geld. Die ouers van daardie kinders het die skuif verwelkom, aangesien dit hulle geld spaar, maar die kinders self is nie gelukkig nie. Hulle mis hulle Affie broers, en kuier vakansies maar oor en weer. Absolute onreg aan die seuns!
Ek wens die sogenaamde “poachers” kry sewe soorte aambeie hoog en diep in, dat dit by hulle ore uitloop.
A good friend of mine who’s youngest family member is participating at the u/13 CW told me the place is rife with agents. 4 Boys from Sishen who’s parents he spoke too already admitted that their boys are moving to “greener” pastures in KZN next year!
@Rooibaard: Voicing concerns on why it won’t work, or why you don’t want it to work? Sounds very similar sometimes…but I’m sure it won’t be retrospective, so don’t worry about any invoices for vd Berg, Stander and Willemse.
I am sure there will be a few boys changing schools after this holiday and/or early next year …, especially the coastal boys from Border, EP etc
@BOG: You refer to exceptions which will obviously be permissible. Motivations will accompany every transfer request to a new school, with correspondence between both HM’s confirming that it was above board and signed off by a regulator/arbiter, a verification process of sorts. If all does not appear above board, it will be reflected in said correspondence and a dispute will be lodged with the regulator/arbiter, who will make a determination. Question is, do you support the concept?
Die idea of compensation for “poached” players is an idea that is born dead. All a player needs to do is to apply for a transfer form and then he can where he wants. There is no way in hell that his school can prevent him from moving, contract or not. The contract cannot be binding anyway as he is a minor. There is only one way to resolve this matter and that is through ethical behaviour on the side of all schools. Players have been moving at the start of grade 10 for many years. I believe that financial inducement to move at that stage is unethical.
@BOG: Another word you may be familiar with is pilferer!
There are a number of the sub-species human sapiens pilfevius around Pretoria at the moment. Bumped into one at a medical centre and he was of no fixed address. Made me wonder!
@playa – give that man a bells…hell, give him a double johnny blue – the whole bottle…
@Playa: Funds will be closely monitored and regulated and will only be available for bettering and developing the affected sport, i.e gym equipment, kit, facilities etc.
@Ploegskaar: The proposal which you refer to, Im almost sure, would be ruled unconstitutional, if ever tested. What would happen if the parents of a child are really transferred elsewhere? Does the kid have to remain behind or the receiving school have to pay compensation for developing the child even though they may have done nothing. In my opinion, that proposal would be extremely difficult , if not impossible,to enforce or to police.
@BOG: @BOG: When GCB is in need of a fetcher and go down south to JJS to fill the role…that’s poaching
@Ploegskaar: Good idea. But the danger would be creating a transfer market in SBR where schools gladly accept the R50k for a player they have developed and then ‘purchasing’ another from elsewhere, and so on. There would have to be a way to regulate that as well.
@Beet. Yip that is true.
Another thing also are those vehicles with foreign registration plates in and around P-Town these days.
And they are not here for sight seeing in July, that I can promise you.
lol…
No that is correct what you are saying but it happens also at all these other weeks like CW & AW and various festivals throughout the year.
@BOG: Or, in this context, a wild animal that hunts school boy rugby players unethically?
Being from the Free State, may I ask, what is a “poacher”? Not people who hunt wild animals illegally?
There is currently a draft proposal in the pipeline that will require a school that poaches a player to compensate the school that developed the player. Compensation proposals vary from a fixed R50k to accumulated investment over the period at the previous school. Rumour has it that it was initiated by the School Rugby Councils, with the motivation and support of those in charge Youth and Senior Rugby, in two Coastal Provinces.