Glenwood has increased it’s rugby depth for the 2014 season by acquired the services of three Eldoraigne boys, two of whom represented the Glenwood 2nd XV against Westville over the weekend and sat on the bench for the 1st XV game.
Glenwood is a well-run popular school. It could probably fill it’s ±250 student capacity Grade 8 classes three times over if it accepted all the new enrollment applicants for that grade each year. On top of this they pride themselves on their rugby coaching programme starting at under-14 level.
With all this going for them it is a bit of a surprise that they would feel the need to actively recruit players after Grade 8.
A head count shows that at least 9 of the 22 listed Glenwood 1st XV starters and reserves from their Westville game are known to have joined Glenwood after Grade 8. That’s over 40% of the squad!
@Tang: I heard that was the case so you know for 100% sure that no boy in the 1st team rugby or any other sport arrived after grade 8? Somehow I think it really is impossible to prove that no boy was ‘recruited’, ‘enticed’ etc. I am not of fan of any movement after the grade 8 intake but it happens, more and more these days. A recruitment can easily be hidden. I for example could offer to pay for a boy to go to Glenwood and no one would ever know, I just pay his fees every year via EFT. Unfortunately we will never know. Headmasters certainly won’t disclose where they get their extra ‘charity’ of ‘old boy’ cash from……it’s all cloak and dagger and probably was worse years back when we didn’t have social media. I applaud PBHS for this policy but is it 100% true, hard to know for sure….there is usually at least 1 bad egg in the basket..
@Grasshopper – Pretoria Boys High don’t have one recruit in the team. In fact, I can’t recall a PBHS team over the last five years having one single recruit.
Let me take this a little further – PBHS did not lure any boy to the school to play sport for them. The boys that play for PBHS came to the school of their own free will. If any boy arrived at PBHS after form 1, they did so because the moved school for any reason other than to play sport.
There may be boys on Alan Gray bursaries but these are give based on circumstance and the need for education not to boost the schools rugby ranking.
@Grasshopper: I guess the issue for me is still to what extent this should be allowed to happen. And when. I’m not really a big fan of these movements after grade 8.. but having said that, you do have kids who want to go to other schools and that should no be prohibited… that brings your question into play again, how do we know it was purely the kid’s idea and that there was not a cousin of an uncle who is the brother of a rich old boy behind the scene????? Transparency maybe the better route to go then…. tough one this……. but ja, I guess no one can claim….
One thing I do know, the new additions to the school do bring different dynamics. My nephew happens to be a boarder at GW and he is mates with one of the GW props (Afrikaans boy) – loves telling us all the funny stories about the gentle giant and his humour. same thing with the Guma chap at MC – happens to be in my sons Afrikaans class – apparently speaks better Afrikaans than all teh English boys and is a scream in class – so ja . lets not forget that these oke are also only schoolboys for most of the year…….
@Redblack White: I think we all know movement is part and parcel of life, be it for sport or money etc. We just need it to be totally open and transparent and I think people won’t have too much of an issue with it. Westville now have recruits from Hudson Park, Northwood, Glenwood, College, Hilton, Michaelhouse etc….no school is whiter than white these days…
@Grasshopper: Sure, I agree – the own steam comment was meant to dispel the idea that someone went out there and said to the guy, here’s the apple, come along and bite. I have no information to say that there was no bursary/scholarship either directly or indirectly, so fair comment…
One other thing, Guma came from WC, not EC …..
@Redblack White: Love the term ‘own steam’, how does anyone know for sure that they are not being compensated? Not officially but by an Old Boy or by the school behind closed doors. All schools probably do some behind closed doors deals to help boys from far away places come on their ‘own steam’. There are probably 99% who do but surely a ‘bursary’ here or there brings them too. This is not an attack on College it’s an observation about schools these days…
@Tang: Not sure if GT saw this Tang – but as far as I am aware NO – they do not – most boys feed in from traditional feeders at gr 8 level – Merchiston, Pelham, Cordwalles, Laddsworth, Athlone – all local primary schools, but then also boarder offtakes from Durban schools such as DPHS , Highbury and of course the surrounding farming areas. In terms of after gr 8 they abide by the headmasters code. In the case of the wings, only the left wing Guma came from EC, but by all acoounts on his own accord – the right wing is a local. Also, the front rower is from Zim, but not recruited , also at his own steam. One you did miss was the no 7 – le Roux – ex Monnas and came last year – but there again – on his own steam
@Meadows – Fantastic post. I agree whole heartedly with you.
It is very sad to see how pervasive the win at all cost mentality is becoming in school boy rugby. The ranking systems have definitely added fuel to the fire and have accelerated this never ending desire to sign players so that a school can be called a “top 10 school”.
Beet has published a number of articles which highlight the behaviour of schools who are totally embroiled in this ceasless desire to be a top ranked rugby school.
In a recent post, I suggested the need for a distinction bewteen schools who play sport as amateurs and schools who play at a semi professional level. If we are able to make this distinction, we can put the rankings and results into perspective.
Whilst I agree that parents and boys have the right to move from one school to another, there should be no implied or actual gain from making the move.
@Gungets Tuft
Do Maritzburg College recruit players? If so, were there any that played against PBHS recently?
I have heard some whispers that both College wings and one of the props were recruited. Is this in fact true?
If it is true, perhaps PBHS should have been given the opportunity to pull in three or four players for the fixture against MC.
I thought MC were totally on the up and up and did not actively recruit players.
Not being funny here but this trail of posts has nothing to do with Glenwood and their Eldoraigne recruits. Also, why can’t posts be in English? I honestly glaze over Afrikaans posts too bored to try and translate them. Beet, maybe you should set up a sub domain called skoolseunsrugbyblog.co.za for our Afrikaans speakers….so much Afrikaans slang I give up…
Been a while since I last posted. Looking fwd to Glenwood vs Bishops next Saturday. Don’t know too much about the Bishops side this year but believe they are much better than last few years.
I don’t comment much more anymore due to time commitments, but I look fwd to the Glenwood vs Bishops game next Saturday. Not sure what Bishops are like this year but I believe much better than the last 2 years.
@BoishaaiPa: Al wat ek gese het is dat ongeveer 40% van GCB se seuns koshuisgangers is en +- 60% in Bloem woon. Wat jy probeer impliseer het was dat hulle nie genoeg ouers het wat in Bloem woon nie- gaan kyk na jou woorde. Di wat ek sou beskryf as statistiese manipulasie, en om dit te wil ontken,—
@BOG: Ek kan nou vesrtaan hoekom jy en stats nie lekker saamwerk nie…n 15% kworum is gebasseer op die leerlingtal…Dus moes daar slegs 180 ouers opgedaag het…nie 600 of 720 nie!..Maar kom ons laat dit maar daar.
@Cappie: Korrigeer myself, std 9, graad 11.
@Tjoppa: Jong, hy is maar in die laer spanne. Hierdie jaar graad 9, en hy hoop om hier by die 7des, 8stes rond te speel.
@Cappie: Jou seun betrokke?
@Tjoppa, ek sal vanaand uitvind by die seuns.
@Cappie: Het julle al name vir die 1stes gekry?
Jislaaik, maar julle kap mekaar kwaai. Ek hoop net Glenwood gaan meer kompeterend wees hierdie jaar. Ek kan nou nie meer wag vir die rugby om regtig te begin nie. Affies het uiteindelik gister hulle proewe kon afsluit. Die manne is lus vir ‘n lekker jaar en lekker rugby teen almal wat wil lekker rugby jol. Sterkte aan almal!
@BoishaaiPa: Die 600 is maar om jou te gemoet te kom met jou statisties afwykings. Dit sou 600 gewees het met 1000 leerlinge. In werklikheid is dit 720 (60% uit 1200) leerlinge wie in Bloem woon. Maar alhoewel dit teleurstellend is dat daar nie genoeg ouers was nie, moet ek darem se jy rek dinge n bietjie om tot die wilde gevolgtrekking te kom dat daar nie genoeg ouers in Bloem woon nie. n Gebrek aan belangstelling in Bestuursliggame is maar n baie wydverspreide probleem- verkeerd, maar algemeen. Ek weet van skole wat deur baie onsuiwere groepe, letterlik gekaap is agv van apatie
@BOG: Wel, dit help nie jy bevraagteken my rondom julle eie reels en regulasies nie..miskien moet jy daai vraag eerder aan die skoolhoof rig..sy eie woorde “Dit was egter teleurstellend om te sien dat die 15% kworum om die tussen-verkiesing geldig te maak nie bereik is nie.”…
Lees die laaste paragraaf…
http://www.gc.co.za/Blog/58daccaf-9ab2-4e06-b578-2bb19207ee85/Grey's-value-system
Ek sal ook graag wil hoor hoe jy by die 600 getal uitkom…!
@BOG: Doubt GCB would ever need post matric’s they usually just go to JJS for rounding off to make them upstanding gentleman.
Geen donners wonder dat jou beste skeidsregters uit Bloemfontein kom nie.
I am really pleased that I could unite the conflicting parties, even for just a moment.@Grasshopper: Post matrics, yes, but something of the past. Also GCB s way of rugby development in the last outpost@Tjoppa: Iemand wat verstand het, is nie n “draadspringer” nie- hy is bekend as “intelligent” (miskien n vreemde konsep vir jou.@BoishaaiPa: Met die vergrote koshuise, is daar nou blykbaar 40% van die leerders in koshuise- 60% dus plaaslik. Ek was nooit bewus dat die kworum vir kies van die Beheerliggaam, meer as 600 ouers is nie. Miskien kan jy dit STATISTIES aan my verduidelik.? Op hierdie stadium, tot sy krediet, is dit net Ploeg wat n eerlike antwoord gegee het- LOJALITEIT. En ek het gepraat van Bloemfontein en nie net GCB nie.
@Tjoppa: Slegs ‘n agterdeur met finansiele voordele, te danke aan die barmhartige eienaars vir wie ek werk, ek gaan nerens tot ek moet nie.
@BOG: Agreed, it is definitely a better holiday than permanent destination, tedious and mundane does spring to mind after only a couple of days, but thanks to the foresight of the company owners, and in absence of a UK or EU passport, I have an “out”, but only as a last resort. The financial benefits should at least facilitate more traveling as well.
I did answer in my first reply, loyalty.
@BOG: Simple reason Bog, because first of all they dont recrute from other reputable institutions , but biggest reason is that most of the kids in Bloem are already from somewhere else!..Your Alma Mater could not get a quorum of 15% parents last week for a Governing Body meeting as there is apparently not enough parents in the vicinity!..That is the only assumption one could make from the request of your headmaster to have another meeting and get the required 15% parental consent.
@Ploegskaar: Nee sies man waar gaan jy heen? Nie gedink jy is ‘n draadspringer nie. Maar as jy mooi gesettle is sal ek en ‘n paar pelle vir jou kom kuier as jy te veel verlang.
@BOG: I saw a few Bloem recruits at Michaelhouse in the 90’s…
@Ploegskaar: Mauritius is not only a “tax haven”, its a mental prison as well. In your case, it might not make a difference, but think of your family. Twice around the island on a 50 CC motorbike, and you have seen it all.If you had a desire to confine yourself to an island, Bazaruto may have been a better option. But for most with expansive minds, island living is simply too restrictive. I have crossed many rubicons in my life, political and otherwise, and what I have forgotten, you still need to learn. But this is about Bloem and The Cape of Mud and Rain and still, no one has told me why they are unable to recruit kids from Bloem, the exception, it would seem.
@Rugbyman: I have a simple approach to all this recruitment / bursary nonsense: SARS, the benefit the parent gets should be deemed as income and added to their taxable income. In some cases this is a substantial amount. This may sway the parents in going for the highest bidder.
@Grasshopper: I must disagree about the junior school. Glenwood Prep has nothing to do with Glenwood High other than being the closest primary school to Glenwood. In fact up till a few years ago the school was called Parkview Primary. They changed the school colours, mascot and name to piggy back on the success of Glenwood High, very underhanded if you ask me!
@BOG: I only have one side, and that is my side Oom, no political allegiances or preferences here, I epitomize the term a-political. Not withstanding, I am still prepared to extend the hand of friendship to you, over the many (4?) generations that separate us, and help you to cross the Rubicon, into the abyss. Sadly, I will promptly leave you shortly thereafter, as I have a guaranteed “out” for me and my family in the wonderful tax haven that is Mauritius.
@Ploegskaar: Its clear that your memory is failing you badly and all I can remember about the Pappegaaiberg, is braaiing snoek there in the mud and rain. Im sure you are doing the Godzille jive too often, but I wonder how high she will lift those legs after loosing her position as “leader of the opposition” to Julius? Are you switching sides to secure your personal interests?
@Grasshopper: yes – saw that – thought it was quite a comprehensive reply although your friend Justin disagrees. Must admit I had to google ad hominem – he likes that word
TMG new owners would probably agree with you
@BOG: Ai Oom, why must you always re-open this age-old rift between the cultured and educated WC Afrikaner and their pigeon-eyed sub-culture, that happen to speak a dialect of Afrikaans, up North?
With regards to your 5 year stint down here, from your knowledge of the wind and weather of the region it is clear that you spent most of your time attending Ossewa Brandwag meetings in a secret cave in the Pappagaai Berg. It is common knowledge to all Capetonians that the SE wind, which blows in summer, only seems to bring Aliens from the North that litter our beaches. Thankfully the NW wind, that brings the rain in winter, clears all the litter, or as you say kak, off our beaches.
@Roger: Yeah, but took 30 years to start playing with the oval ball. Most schools in KZN started in the 1880’s and by 1910, the big 5 traditionals (College, Hilton, Michaelhouse, DHS & Glenwood) were all playing.
FYI – http://themediaonline.co.za/2014/03/understanding-the-digital-revolution/
@Pedantic: Clever boy- absolute brilliance ! Now to go down a few levels! @Tjoppa: Translate that please@Ploegskaar: I understood that all the kak blows down the coast from PE and settles around the flat mountain in the Cape. Personally, Im still suffering from the effects of 5 years in the windy/ rainy/ muddy and shitty Cape.At least it serves as a transit area for emigrants (climatization) going to places like NZ and Europe. But with all the ducking and diving, I am yet to hear if there are any Bloem recruits in Durban- from any school
And if you want an example of parents seeking alternatives to traditional schools and over prices private schooling look no further than Curros share price –
@Pedantic: Ja, Ed Zachary, the 2011 intake is the year I was talking about, the 2010 recruitment effort. The guys running it went all out, open days, parents evenings etc. my lighty was the DPHS year of 2010, their Centenary. I was hoping that sort of effort would continue. My son would have gone to Northwood if he hasn’t chosen College in the face of 3 previous generations. I feared the 2013 aggression might cause Durban North people to ignore NW again, but I could be wrong. During the College match last year the talk in the stands was not good. If you are predicting a slump in 2015, where did recruitment stumble, and why. Did that keen 2010 bunch of parents lose interest, and again, why?
@Rugbyman: I can honestly say that in Jhb I cannot think of a school that is so defined by their rugby – bloggers help me out?! Perhaps Monnas but they have always been top notch – nothing new? You hit the nail on the head by saying the traditional schools don’t have this problem – long may that continue. Maybe the KZN and PTA market is more competitive – less choice – who knows? I stand by my statement though – anyone who thinks rugby is a passport to success is deluded
@Grasshopper: KES established 1902
btw – how’s your TWAR with Justin McCarthy going? At this early stage I am backing digital
@Pedantic: Clever boy- absolute brilliance ! Now to go down a few levels! @Tjoppa: Translate that please@Ploegskaar: I understood that all the kak blows down the coast from PE and settles around the flat mountain in the Cape. Personally, Im still suffering from the effects of 5 years in the windy/ rainy/ muddy and shitty Cape.At least it serves as a transit area for emigrants (climatization) going to places like NZ and Europe. But with all the ducking and diving, you still have not explained why the kids from Bloem cannot be enticed away.
@Scrum Doctor: Same can be said for Westville, about 6 sitting in front of me all spoke Afrikaans, it’s reality….Afrikaans parents are sending their boys to English schools, especially in KZN…
@deecee: Glenwood is an Afrikaans school already – listening to the communication on the field on Saturday it was mostly Afrikaans during the first team game so that answers your question . Not that it makes too much difference – just shows where they source their rugby players from !
Recruitment not recruiwnt
Bad day at the typewriter
It should read someone at Glenwood and not Simone apologies for the typing error
Schools have lost the plot. This is a case at Glenwood but I am afraid there are many schools doing the same thing. Westville as an example have the boys from Hudson Park. The irony is that both schools are part of the Boys Public Schools that are in the process of agreeing in a sports charter that specifically speaks against this practice. It talks about the only reason boys should move after enrolling at high school is due to valid reasons like relocation of a family. Did these boys parents move to KZN? I would urge like minded schools to start boycotting against schools who poach/ attract boys to their schools with bursaries and/ or other financial incentives. I take it the eldoraigme boys are getting free schooling and probably rebates on boarding!! Perhaps Simone at Glenwood could clarify? I am also aware that Glenwood ran quite an aggressive recruiwnt campaign in Pretoria last year, perhaps this is the fruit of their labour. Next step I guess is Glenwood becoming dual medium school offering all subjects in Afrikaans Hoerskool Glenwood I nice ring to it
@Ploegskaar: True but I must admittingly confess to talk a lot of crap is out of free will, and usually used to impress the illiterate and stupid.
@Tjoppa: Note that the Bloem natives are generally good people though, its not like we can all choose where we want to live. By the same reasoning I assume the people of Durban, Johannesburg and even Pretoria are also generally good people.
@Ploegskaar: Supported by an individual that talk a lot of kak.
@BOG: How did you arrive at the conclusion that the WC recruits from the EC?
To answer your question though, it must be loyalty, Bloem is a kak place.
@BOG: No because they are Afrikaans white and stupid.
If I am correct these are the same boys that was declined by Affies in 2012. Eldoraign started to slip badly due to the new “prostitute” Loftus found in Garsfontein. Sad but fact.
@Pedantic: You fell for it…that’s exactly what he wanted…for someone else (besides him) to say exactly that
@BOG: Possibly because arguably the best rugby school in the world is on their doorstep
Loyalty .. nah.
I obviously have not read all the comments, but from a completely impartial perspective, it would seem that the WC recruits from the EC, Gauteng recruits from the WC and when they arrive in Pretoria, they are recruited by Durban. My common sense tells me that a lot of time and travelling expenses could be saved if Durban goes DIRECTLY to the EC. How many recruits are there in Durban who come from Bloemfontein? Zero? Of course I know that the Sharks senior side is almost only recruits from Bloem, but Im thinking school rugby. And would the reason for this be that the school kids in Bloem just like their city more, or do they just have more inherent loyalty?
@Gungets Tuft: I hear your point loud and clear, however, the 2011 Grade 8 intake was a strong one, and a certain gent who would take the reigns in 2013 was instrumental in assembling the rugger players in that year – only reason I know this, is that I know several of the parents.
2011 is the year I believe we started seeing the turnaround, 2013 might just have been a little aggressive in the public eye in terms of late recruitment.
Time will tell – but it’s good to see improvement in KZN, regardless of which school it is.
@Pedantic: Like I said, happy to be proved wrong, except that I think the revolution started in 2010 with a big drive from some dedicated Old Boys and parents to get the kids from the area back to Northwood. At that stage BW was called in to coach, BG was imposing some discipline (he was evident outside the school every day reining in the boys), SV was involved. They had 3 years of a really solid in-area intake. It all lays the platform. My fear was that the work done from 2010 – 2012 was being compromised by the imports. If they fail in 2015 then my fears may be justified. Success is a building process, not a shopping trolley, I am convinced of that. The possible success of 2014 might well be the long term process, this being undone since 2013, or it might be the big bang approach, but time will tell whether one good season brings the boys back to Northwood. I guess there is no way of knowing – but I must concede that you are closer to it than me. I do, and always have, wished Northwood well.
@Gungets Tuft: We all seem to have short memories when it comes to success.
IMHO Northwood’s improvement is not an overnight thing, their current G11’s and G12’s have been a work in progress for a few years now and I expect the good work done in the past will result in two good years for their rugby. What I don’t understand is that those responsible for the work done were simply discarded (not sure if that’s the case, it just looks that way).
Bashy seems to be on the right track at this stage, but with the “builders” now gone I don’t see NW doing very well post 2015. (A look at their age group results vs Kearsney illustrates this).
Give credit where it’s due … well done to MK and DN for the groundwork they did.
@beet: Your headline says it all – it might as well be referring to a professional franchise “adding depth”. Schoolboy rugby has, sadly IMO, evolved into a semi professional feeder system for the pro ranks.
Some of the unfortunate manifestations of the evolution are;
The close links between pro franchises and some schools
What amounts effectively to a transfer market of youngsters too young to be bound contractually and almost certainly too young to be making decisions based on a potential pro rugby career,
The pressure to perform year on year on schools that have set their stall out as a “top rugby school” and the direct impact of that on the measurement of headmasters/school performance
The “win at all costs” approach leading directly to cheating in the form of substance abuse and/or over age players
I know that everything changes over time an that the advent of the professional era has brought about many positive changes in rugby not least of which is the possibility for players to earn a living from the sport but as someone who played in the amateur era I also think that it has lost some of its soul.
I think that schoolboys should be allowed to enjoy the amateur ethos of rugby whilst at school. The 1% or so that become professionals will have plenty of time to come to terms with the challenges and pressures of that career choice when and if they make the step up.
@Roger: You are missing the point… No one wants to go to a school of which they cannot be proud off… Do they measure pride in the lovely colour the school is painted? Or by the nice gardens and water features? No… Its measured by the sport results…
If the sport teams gets knocked on the field week in and week out there are no oppurtunities for learners with higher aspirations to be noticed, hence they will go elsewhere… Obviously the academic qualification stays priority number one, but what I am saying is that has a knock-on effect. Poor sport results = less talented kids joining the school = even poorer sport result = less pride = good teachers leaving that school = a downward spiral in numbers and at the end of the day poor academic results…
Maybe it doesnt work like that in Jhb, but in Pretoria I can name a few schools that were still VERY competitive in sport a few years back and are nowhere now on the sportsfield and as a result no one wants to send their kids to those schools any longer…
This offcourse is less of a problem with the so called “traditional schools” like Affies, Pta Boys High, Grey College, Paarl Gim etc. where a culture has been established over many decades. Younger schools dont have that luxury and had to do something to either swim or drown…
@Grasshopper: {sticking kop out the lounge door ..} .. Doris – don’t give the popcorn to the dog just yet .
@RugbyDad: Northwood rely on a College boy for their hockey
I like Northwood. They have some perception issues, I don’t think the last 2 years was a good tactical course to take, but their rugby looks good this year (after one game) so I would be happy to be proved wrong. Of course it could be Bashy, I reckon if they had kept Barry Wilson on that success would have come last year, but thats all conjecture.
Sure all schools recruit, results and a long track record (back to at least 1920 …
) makes it easier, but there are a lot more throats being cut now than 30 years ago. Back then a quiet word from Skonk (or Toppie, or ….) alongside a junior school rugby field resulted in a recruit (and at R50 a year school fees scholarships weren’t needed).
And it is mercenary as well, I doubt that a recruit in Grade 11 will have the same loyalty as a Grade 8 snotnose coming through the ranks. The Grade 11/12 oke is going to take what he came for, hop on the next bus coming past, and there will be an empty chair at Reunion Dinner.
@Roger: Ah OK, so 1910 is OK then? Seeing KES only started playing rugby in 1932, where does that put them?
@Roger: Damn. What am I going to do with all this popcorn …
@Gungets Tuft: At the present time, I would agree on most counts. However, schools like Glenwood and Westville weren’t the powerhouse schools they are now until they focused on one or more sports and, in some instances, coupled it with a good education. Glenwood without the rugby would not have a good swimming team, would not have a good waterpolo team etc.
Westville the same with swimming. I have no problems with what either school does, just sometimes the manner. If it works, go for it.
A school like Northwood has a good academic record and features some of the top hockey sides in the country, the U14A and U15A cricket sides are unbeaten this year, they have a fantastic band and great chess club – but RUGBY is what keeps the majority of the locals thinking of other schools. It is the most watched and talked about school activity. If they were to start being very competitive in the age groups, the number of QUALITY applicants would increase.
GC is in a slightly different bracket, as they are a technical school. DHS would be similar to NW, with similar problems.
You are totally correct about schools with big BE’s – it also translates into strong sports teams due to the mass participation. Unfortunately, everyone says ” we don’t recruit” until they get found out. It won’t stop, but will get more professional – we can’t get away from it.
@Grasshopper: any school established after 1920
“Seconds out … Round number 1”.
Off to grab some popcorn and a coke … don’t start without me.
@Roger: who exactly are ‘flash in the panners’, please give detail?
From a Glenwood parent:
“just to correct something on your last blog about the imports from Eldoraigne, yes they did sit on the bench but if you go through the starting line-up for Saturday 10 was at Glenwood from Grade 8, 4 joined in Grade 10 and 1 at the beginning of Grade 11, of those who joined in Grade 10, 2 joined out of their own free will because they did not get the development they needed where they were.
One player who has been at the school since u14 was one of those kids that developed very late. Something else a number of boys are big when they are in grade 7 and look good as they play against smaller kids but then they stop growing and their mates pass them by. You cannot keep on playing one of those kids when the other schools have big monsters playing for them. You need to cover the weak areas.
I am not saying replace at all cost but if a kid looks for a new environment to develop his abilities then by all means and if they buy into the ethos of the school and become part of the brother hood that exist it is a win win for all.”
@Grasshopper: The carrot is not “playing against the best”. The carrot is representative rugby, CW and GK, because that is where they showcase and hope for pro contracts. A move from Pretoria to Durban is justified by nothing less, unless you can tell me that the recruits are paying their own way 100%.
Recruitment by schools is to stay competitive. If it were not so then there would be no scholarships, not academic, cultural, not sport. It’s not as if the Sunday Crimes is going to have a headline saying “Gerald Pogenpul gets 100% attendance for Life Orientation”, or “Railway South High School keeps 100% record of no criminal convictions in 2013”. It’s about winning, and schools give scholarships to do so. Period. Just say it, you will feel much better.
And it’s not shameful either. If I told you that Glenwood will get 100% in area, fee paying kids because they market well, using sport, the Arts and academics as a “brand activator” you should be happy with that. It’s Utopian of course, but it should not condone questionable tactics, so make sure that the school tactics are sound and sustainable.
@Gungets Tuft: not to mention the thousands of puplis educated at Crawfords, Intl Schools, Curros etc etc where rugby is not even on the radar.
All your top private schools in SA are over-subscribed without having to holler from the hilltops about their rugby success
Same would go for your top “model c” schools
nah – its only the “flash in the panners” that need this kind of marketing
@Gungets Tuft: Spot on G! Glenwood offer rugby boys another carrot, called playing rugga aganst the best rugga schools in SA, not that I agree with this and the number of games played, but it does attract the rugby boys knowing they will be up against the likes of Monnas, Affies, College, Westville & Grey Bloem every year. Beet, please try and reproduce the Glenwood squad and I’m sure 70% of the boys were at Glenwood from grade 8 or 9. The recruits I think are in grade 11 now…
Only 18 out of the 22 that played on Saturday for Queen’s arrived in grade 8.
I wonder how much of the recruitment now is due to the publication of schools ranking systems which are in turn used for marketing of the school.
Schools like the privates, House, Hilton, Kearsney would, I expect, not need to have winning rugby teams to still fill the classrooms. Nor would College, Glenwood or Westville. I am not that sure about Northwood or DHS, I know they are full, but how many of those boys are “in area”, and what is the default rate on school fees. I am lead to believe that the average default is around 10% (for government schools – wasn’t there a survey recently about this – perhaps the national census?? .. I am getting old [and tired – sorry Arlo Guthrie] and can’t be #ssed to look it up). The average default in a boarding school is next to zero – because while you cannot ask a kid to leave for not paying school fees, they can be asked to leave the BE, which generally leads to them leaving the school too (makes sense – they can hardly move home and carry on at the school – since home is in another town). So – schools with big boarding establishments tend to do a bit better in the school fee stakes, I am not sure how Westville do it (and not wanting to start Grassy off on a “wealth” tangent
).
Of course all schools recruit. Naturally they all attempt to “sell” their offering. There are various methods of doing that, a Top20 rugby school is one of them, selection to representative sides like GK, CW is another. Offering a holistic approach to developing boys is also on the list and I like to think (in KZN anyway) that all the current Tier 1 schools succeed in the latter, and add a number of Tier 2 in there as well, GC and Northwood on that list (just missing the more likely chance of selection for trials at GK and CW), among others.
It also goes without saying that fee paying parents fund bursaries and scholarships – not all but certainly a portion. The value that they get (I am one of them) is that I believe that the money spent on scholarships would otherwise be spent on marketing, so it all evens out in the end.
@beet: @Rugbyman: rubbish – you could probably count on two hands the number of schools that actively pursue a succesful rugby programme in order to enhance the schools “relative” attractiveness – any parent that encourages their son to become a pro rugby player at the expense of higher education needs counselling. Schools that crave and pursue rugby success above all else are on a slipperly slope to nowhere – IMHO
@Grasshopper: That’s less than I would have expected I know GCB 1st this year only 1 boy was not there in Grade 8.
60% or more of the Glenwood starting team have been there since grade 8….that ain’t bad…
@Mike: Grey as such do not activily recruit I think there is a misconception that they do, were they are at an advantage these days there are a lot of Old Boys from schools like Queens/Dale/Muir and so on who do not send there kids there anymore because of things like boarding and so on.(There are currently 63 kids at Grey Junior who are sons of Queens Old Boys, that is scary.) Flip even the Headmaster is a Old Queenian.
So no I think people would be stupid to say Grey stole there boys they did not, you could maybe say that the new dispensation helped Grey that’s all.
Grey is simply a well run school with a good culture taking full advantage of the times.
@Mike: Glenwood do have a junior school called Glenwood Prep and it’s a very good one. Also, Penzance Primary is a key feeder…
@Queenian:
@Rugbyman: Thanks Rugbyman. I appreciate you keeping it constructive so that there is something meaningful to be gained from you comment.
@All Black: I had no idea. But that begs the question even more. If you have a junior school and have 250 odd grade 8s, why do you need any more than that ?
@Mike: Glenwood have a fully operational and successful junior school. Glenwood Prep, just down the road.
@Playa: Haha well thank you for clarifying that one about Mgugudo. I think credit must go to the coaching staff at Grey for really developing their players. The boys who were the so called star players in u9 at grey junior are the same kind of players in matric if they decide to remain at grey and not go to the snoozles.
@beet: I have no problem with balanced education, but fact is that life is not fair… It wont be fair whilst you are in school and it will be even more unfair when I leave school. Schools do for sure play a role in the recruitment, and ALL top schools do it but as you know some deny it… It is only recently that it has come more to the foreground but it has been happening for many years…
In some areas in our great country a school’s survival, linked with quality teachers, is dependant on the performance on the sportsfield… No one meassures a school on anything BUT sports performance… So it is forcing schools to ensure that they perform otherwise the following cycle follows:
1. The best teachers leave the school, followed by the best learners.
2. Falling numbers…. higher school fees
3. Deteriorating education and a school with a bad name…
This has happened in Pretoria with a number of schools and is sttill happening… Like it or not, but we are a sport mad nation…
Times have changed and schools are very competitive, so it is becoming a do or die situation… the nearest school is unfortunately no longer the best school… Then the cycle starts where a good rugby player, who is a late developer, quickly realises that he is not getting the coaching or the platform for him to launch his career in school A… School B is then quick to accomodate such a kid… Can you blame either party, or is it a function of the system?
@Playa: Ye they had to recruit they got tied of being bullied by the criminals from Kudu land.
@Mike:
. There was a time though when the Grey High line-up looked more like a Grey Kollege line-up. It was easy to assume recruitment. But a colleague of mine who is an Old Grey, says, it was purely preference…but heck a certain Dale player (Mgugudo) disappeared last year, in the middle of term 1 only to be seen practicing at the Pansy Mattress, also known as Philips Field 
Just kidding…I know for a fact, Grey had nothing to do with that.
@Rugbyman: I will never dispute a responsible parent’s right to choose what’s best for the son.
But we can certainly question the part that schools play in the recruitment process.
We have examples of parents wanting better or different opportunities for their kids but there also seems to be a trend of these kids ending up at schools that are prepared to turn a blind-eye to the ones that have been at their own school all along and chase after better players.
You could well argue that this is perfectly acceptable but I would counter that by asking why do we have school rugby in the first place – to turn our educational institutions into pro rugby academies dominated by personalities that cherish rugby culture above all else OR as a part of a good well balanced education?
@Playa: @Grasshopper: Any more of these boys to send to Queens.
Over 40% of the team arrived in grade 8. Is this supposed to be a good stat ? I know Glenwood don’t have a Junior School. But at Grey High, 10 out of the starting 15 were in the Grey Junior u13A team of 2009 or 2010. 16 out of 22 attended Grey Junior and only 1 out of 22 arrived at Grey High after grade 8. And there are still complaints from other EC schools that Grey recruits too much.
@beet: Beet… I can assure you Eldoraigne gives out 100% bursaries as well… They are also in this game and have been doing so for 13 years… They recently “recruited” boys from neighbouring schools Zwartkop and Centurion… The sooner you guys make peace with the fact that parents make these decisions the better. In my humble opinion it is a free country and if parents decide that their kids will have better oppurtunities elsewhere so be it… I really feel we are making a mountain out of a mole’s heap! Schools dont own kids… No one forces the moves… If a boy and his parents are happy at a school they wont move, period. The push and pull factors have to be there for a move to take place…. Also you will find that it is parents from school A that makes contact with parents from school B and thats where it starts… But this is just my opinion….
@CRC: The HMA only applies to boys who are u19 at school. If a boy is u18, he can literally join the school on the day of the match and play.
I think there is a SBR player registration requirement as well which all KZN schools have access to, so it is possible for any school to check the age of a player from another school.
Without getting involved in a discussion that I do not have all the information, I need to add something here.
I mentioned last year that a Eldoraingne boy wanted to go to Glenwood. This was his choice, as he believed they could offer more than Eldoraigne can ( from a rugby exposure perspective ). Dad is from that part of the world.
He was not being recruited by Glenwood. Maybe he decided to take some friends with.
@Grasshopper: Hey Hopper I dispute the misleading claim part
. The two Eldoraigne boys were on the bench. The confirmed number out of 22 is 9 (there may be more). If Glenwood has injuries, replacements or attends festivals, these boys play. 8 of the 9 came in Gr10 or later. Glenwood’s u14A and u15A achieve good results every year.. IMHO it would be better to say that the article does not go into detail because each individual has a different set of reasons for moving to Gwd.
I also want to say that every recruitment there is a push and a pull factor. The push being the parents, the pull being the recruiting school. A move cannot happen without consent from both. Its fine to say that parents were not happy at the old school but if the new school makes the initial approach or offers a 100% bursary, there is a lot of pull there as well and it might even be reasonable to arrive at the conclusion that the pull outweighed the push. If on the other hand parents agreed to pay 100% of the school fees at the new school, there would be little evidence to suggest a pull occurred and it would be debatable whether a move of that nature was even a recruitment.
What grade are these Eldoraigne boys in and when did they arrive? Headmaster’s Agreement?
Must say the Dale Jnr Boys at Glenwood are very good. Think they managed to take 3 out of last years under 13 side.
Hope they are looked after. Don’t need another incident like the Muir boys that went to Noord- Kaap.
Perhaps they enjoy home so much during the holiday that they stay at home. Wishful thinking
@Grasshopper: Are these new recruits in Grade 11?
I think the article is misleading, of the 40% quite a few arrived in grade 9 and 10. Only the 3 Eldoraigne boys arrived recently. I don’t agree with it either as I watched them and none of them were better than the 1st team players.
Oh dear!
And just for the sake of the Blue Bulls recruiters, who most probably is already enjoying the Clifton beach in anticipation of the Western Cape school fixtures. Eldoraigne is a school in Pretoria.
Most probably the Charkies recruiters spotted these kids and took them to KZN.
Did not agree when Westville did it and certainly do not agree when Glenwood does it . Plain and simple its wrong ! it creates bad feelings in the team and generally is not good for morale. I just find it very sad that schools resort to these “underhand” tactics just to win a game of rugby ! Impossible to say how much this effected Westville last Saturday but must have had some effect . On the positive side ( only slightly) they have to earn their 1st team place by starting of in the 2nd team.