School rugby coach becomes Currie Cup coach

Courtesy of Sharksworld.co.za. Written by Rob Otto.

The Mercury has this morning revealed that former Sharks flanker – and current Director of Rugby at Hilton College – Brad Macleod-Henderson is set to take take over the hands-on coaching reigns for the Sharks during the upcoming Currie Cup season.

Macleod-Henderson cut his coaching teeth in England and Italy before returning to Durban to lead College Rovers to a maiden National Club Championship trophy in 2010. He was set to resume his role as assistant coach for the Sharks under 21 side this year, but in a surprising move, now looks to assume the mantle of head coach for the Sharks, with Sean Everitt tipped to be his deputy.

The paper further alleges that John Smit is set to meet with John Plumtree and his legal representatives tonight to negotiate a settlement for the outgoing coach. Plumtree apparently believes that he had a verbal and binding agreement from Brian van Zyl that his contract would be extended for two further years and clearly plans to take a large chunk of money out of Smit’s coffers as a “parting gift” to the union.

Sharksworld’s information is that The Mercury is correct regarding the coaching position and while we wait for the formal announcement of Brad’s new role, we can start by informally wishing him well in the new challenges he’ll face.

During his two years in charge at Hilton, BMH had mixed fortunes. Although he won three out of four matches against big derby rivals Michaelhouse, including a double in 2013, against the other top schools in the province, namely Glenwood, Kearsney, Maritzburg College and Westville, the new Sharks coach’s record reads played 8 won 2 lost 6. Home wins against Kearsney in 2012 and against an injury depleted Maritzburg College team this year are the only successes he’s enjoyed. Including Michaelhouse, his win percentage stands at a low 42% against the five KZN schools. Hilton finished fifth and fourth in KZN during in the two seasons.

The full record:

HILTON RECORD: 2012-2013
17/03/12 Hilton 14 16 Westville
24/03/12 Hilton 13 11 Bishops
26/03/12 Hilton 6 25 Queens College
28/03/12 Hilton 29 8 Muir College
21/04/12 Hilton 18 19 Glenwood
28/04/12 Hilton 13 6 Kearsney
05/05/12 Michaelhouse 12 11 Hilton
12/05/12 Northwood 13 33 Hilton
19/05/12 Maritzburg College 24 14 Hilton
02/06/12 Hilton 44 15 Durban High School
09/06/12 George Campbell 5 20 Hilton
16/06/12 St Charles 7 39 Hilton
23/06/12 Hilton 26 22 Michaelhouse
04/07/12 St Benedicts 14 26 Hilton
07/07/12 St Stithians 10 27 Hilton
09/03/13 Hilton 81 0 Voortrekker (Pmb)
16/03/13 Westville 20 10 Hilton
28/03/13 Bishops 29 13 Hilton
30/03/13 Hilton 23 10 Helpmekaar
01/04/13 Hilton 25 26 St Albans
20/04/13 Hilton 24 14 Northwood
27/04/13 Hilton 42 12 Michaelhouse
04/05/13 Hilton 34 0 St Charles
11/05/13 Glenwood 21 9 Hilton
25/05/13 Hilton 39 10 George Campbell
01/06/13 Hilton 38 22 M. College
08/06/13 DHS 3 23 Hilton
15/06/13 Kearsney 34 9 Hilton
22/06/13 Michaelhouse 34 43 Hilton
Overall Won 19 10 Lost

83 Comments

  1. What about Sean Erasmus? Will he move up to under 21 and leave school coaching?

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  2. Does anybody know who will be called up to the KZN Academy side if Brad Ellse was called up to Craven Week???

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  3. Well done to BMH… Can’t look at his coaching pedigree based on what Hilton achieved! If you do not have the players, no matter how good a coach you are, you simply do not have a chance!

    @Horsefly: I have heard Ellse is just covering and has not been included… Not sure if this is true or not

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  4. @HORSEFLY NO.1: @RBugger: The Bradley Ellse news should have read: Well done on his temporary call-up to the KZN Craven Week team.

    This situation is no different to Cameron Wright covering for Stefan Ungerer in 2011 or Dylan Coulson covering for Corne Vermaak in 2012. Marcel Coetzee is resting his ankle at the moment but is expected to be fit for CW.

    So no permanent replacement called on for Academy Week

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  5. @beet: in this case does Khanyile move up? He had a concussion during the GC game. Still wondering about cover at scrum half for the Academy XV.It is a specialized position and the link between pack and Backline is critical. Good luck to Brad and I hope that Mr.Everrit gets the assistant role. He deserves it and has a wealth of knowledge to part with.

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  6. @Buffel: No. No one moving up at this stage. Also during 2012, Kelvin Elder played College scrumhalf for almost the entire season. He is now a fullback slash utility play and will be Kwazi’s back up at 9.

    But very interesting development today. KZN will field an Academy B team at next week’s Academy Week. As hosts KZN have been asked to replace Kenya, who withdrew at the last minute due to lack of funds. I’m trying to find out who is in the team.

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  7. @ Beet- I hope that Buthelezi and Martin make the team. Also was it my imagination or were there 6 WOBs on the field for the Sharks at the end of their game against the Lions. That surely must be some sort of record. :mrgreen:

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  8. @star: I have a feeling they will pick from the trials players first so expect Martin to have a shot. I’m not even sure the selectors know Buthelezi exists. There should have been a much better effort made to get him to Woodburn trials.

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  9. @star: Thats one thing about WOBs. They show a loyalty towards the Sharks after school that few other locals can match, yet that love never seems to be reciprocated by the Sharks to the school itself.

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  10. A player being dropped due to lack of funds..??? That seems very unfair to me!

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  11. @beet: KZN schools should take the opportunity to put as many G11’s into this B side to see how they perform in preparation for next year. There are 4 from Westville that spring to mind, Martin, Buthelezi, Braithwaite and Haystek.

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  12. @beet: Just read on Sport 24: A Paarl Gymnasium rugby player has been banned from playing for a year after being found guilty of making racist remarks.

    This comes after a racial storm erupted in Western Province schools rugby earlier this month when Wynberg’s Under-16 team walked off during a match against Paarl Gymnasium after the apparent use of the k-word directed towards one of their players.

    At some point a Paarl Gym boy allegedly also told a boy from Wynberg: “I will slap the coloured off your face.”

    According to the SARugbymag website, Paarl Gymnasium held an independent disciplinary hearing on June 21, with the external committee including a former judge, an outside school principal and a practicing attorney.

    One player was found guilty of misconduct and received a year-long ban from rugby. A further sanction was imposed, which stipulated that the student may face expulsion if found guilty of a similar offence in future.

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  13. @beet: I don’t think it’s about loyalty at all it’s about language and where to study. Also the Bulls recruit before KZN so the perceived best at school level leave the province, but hopefully come back when they get bored of the bench. I think there were 5 WOBs not 6, there were 2 GOBs Zeilanga and Cooper. Kleynheins should have been there too….

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  14. @beet: going to be interesting as to who they pick for the b team. I agree that they should be looking at next year and goodsen should be a cert. to captain the side. They can make up for their failure to pick him in the first place. I see that the boys are coming together on Thursday .Just wondering if they are playing another warm-up game as there is the Investec Academy taking place at Glenwood and they are scheduled to play a game on Friday at 1.

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  15. @Buffel: What is going to happen next year between Goodsen and Coetzee?? Who do you rate as a better player?

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  16. @BuffelsCM: Good on Paarl Gim – a 16 year old using that kind of language is ridiculous!!! Strange that someone born in the new era of South Africa would still be making those kind of remarks – suppose it comes from the parents!

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  17. @RBugger: IMHO-Goodsen to captain the CW team. College are going to the team to beat and it will be well led by Darren.

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  18. @Buffel: Fair enough, will be a good tussle though. Coetzee is apparently flying high at the moment, but they are playing him at 6 in the warm ups – he plays a very confrontational game towards the ball, if you know what I mean.

    I heard a funny rumour that Goodsen might play centre next year?

    Personally, I think Tedder is going to impress and surprise a few next year – I like the look of him and if he can put on a bit of size, he may give Goodsen and Coetzee a good run in at 8 next year

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  19. @ Grassy- Chadwick,Hadebe, Stander, Fisher, Majola and Meyer is 6 by my count. I not sure what you mean by language and where to study means. They can always go to WP where Sithole seems to have flourished( making Academy while at school)
    Also you put the Westville link regarding the game against College where you said it was a bit over the top. Is it possible for you to give the College link as a basis of comparison?
    @ Westers- the first time I saw Haystek I liked his balance. He seems to have got a lot bigger and so I think we have our enforcer for next year. Good combination with Martin.

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  20. @beet: That is a problem in that in some regions the boys had to fight for positions and in the weaker regions they go through. Hence the need for independent selectors who see the boys week in and week out. Then you get the cream to the trials-anyway , we have already thrashed this one out. Will probably have to wait for next year.

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  21. @ Buffel- he is going to be the surprize package next year.Has grown in leaps and bounds once he was promoted. Together with Braithwaite they played B team last year. Gives hope to boys on the fringes.

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  22. @star: Ja its quite a transformation. I watched him play BSflank for the Kearsney u16A against Clifton and he looked very much like a passenger. Did the bare minimum that day. He seems to be a lot hungrier now.

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  23. @beet: we used to have to gee him up and only then did we get some life out of him. Always saw the potential as he is big and strong and still am a little puzzled as to why we let him go when we lack height and weight . Would have been right there in the engine room causing havock like Daniel Dup. Good luck to Westville. They got a good one.

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  24. On the real issue of this post if we may. I see that mr Smit declined Jake White and Eddie Jones as available coaches for the Sharks. Could anybody tell us why this has happened? Still saying the Sharks are going to regret the day they appointed John Smit. Nothing against Henderson but please explain the thinking behind this fiasco.

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  25. @RBugger: And the boys on the other side has no blame. Suppose their behavior comes from their parents too. I pray for the day that all wrong’s will be seen in the same light. No actions taken against a team that showed no respect for the referee and openly express their anger against them. No actions for the boys provoking the player. No action at all? Is uttering the K word worse than what also happened on the field. I am just asking?

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  26. @Tjoppa: Bud, I have always enjoyed a bit of banter from you, but based on your comments below, to me, you are coming across in a racist manner.

    I have many friends of colour and if I were captain of my side, I would have either pulled my players from the field or alternatively, stamped on the Gim Boys head.

    Do me a favour man, using the K word is simply rude, antagonising and brain-less!!!

    Why should there be action against Wynberg – how good to see them embracing South Africa and the culture and showing true South African integration…

    If this is how you think, it goes a very long way to explaining why South Africa seems unable to move on from the past.

    Go ask Kolisa or Habana or the Beast how they would react if a player called them a K? Have an argument with them

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  27. @RBugger: Please read my whole argument. I do not, and again NOT, agree with any method of humiliating any person. All I am saying that this boy was provoked and the actions of the boys of Wynberg was not innocent. Why have we not heard from Wynberg what they are doing to get their teams to behave on a rugby field. Please read the full report.

    And I promise you the Beast and Habana will not provoke their opponents to get reactions like this and will be severely punished if they behaved like the Wynberg boys regarding the referee.

    All I am saying there was two wrongs. Why does only one get punished?

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  28. @Tjoppa: I would like to know how this boy was provoked?

    If the player in question, from Wynberg, hit the Gim boy, poked at his eye, grabbed his balls ( as per the Samoan ) then perhaps I can understand an outburst from the Gim boy and the Wynberg boy should then be punished… But in the Country we live in, a punch or scuffle is far less serious than making a remark like he did.

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  29. @RBugger: Maybe now you will understand my argument :

    An earlier report indicated there was unnecessary chirping at the referee’s decisions, and it reached boiling point ten minutes into the second half when a try was awarded to Paarl Gym, which appeared to contain multiple infringements during the build-up.

    Wynberg players reportedly protested the awarding of the try, with a retreating Paarl player then responding by saying something offensive, which upset the Wynberg team, who then refused to move behind the tryline to allow the conversion to take place.

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  30. @RBugger: Your guilt of what happened in the past is tainting your judgement. Then please advise me when may I use the K word. When?
    Two wrongs adress both. That is human and fair.
    You said it “But in the Country we live in”

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  31. @Tjoppa: I am 29 years old bud!!!! No guilt here…

    It is never ok to say that word – it shows a lack of respect for a human race! Anyway, I am not going into that, this is a rugga blog!

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  32. @Tjoppa: I see you living up to your name. clean banter guys. this is about SBR and there is no place for racism .

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  33. @Tjoppa: Tjoppa, I had heard that Jake was approached, as we know he and Smit got back to U20 rugby. I am led to believe that he was too entrenched financially in Aus. Anyway Smit is a very experienced CEO and negotiator, watch this space, I reckon Bismark and Jannie won’t hang around for long… Apparently they are renegotiating their contracts :) good for them.

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  34. @RBugger@Buffel: What I read from Tjoppa – and the opinion he wants from you, is as follow: The school (Paarl Gim) punished the player who uttered racial slurs. Now, will the other school (Wynberg) punish the players who provoked? If not, then we must assume that it is fine to provoke (in the school and the players’ eyes). However, if they (Wynberg) do act, then both sides got the punishment they deserve and hopefully they learn from that.
    At this stage only Paarl Gim acted. Wynberg did not act – as far as we know. Do you guys agree that Wynberg should act or not?

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  35. @McCulleys Workshop: Unfortunately rugby management is like politics. If appointed (1) Get rid of enemies (2) Get rid of anybody not polishing your shoes (3) Appoint family and friends. With this you ensure that during the period before your own dismissal you can do what you want. Irrespective what is right or wrong. Then you get fired.

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  36. @McCulleys: You are bang on target. The Du Plessis brothers almost left a couple of years ago to become Bulls. With Chilli gone, maybe their path is open now. Otherwise they will be away to foreign clubs.

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  37. @Djou: With the current administration selecting overseas players, bar Japan, you can bet your last cents it is going to be of to Europe/Japan.
    Why can New Zealand still be no1 selecting only home based players. No grudge against anybody playing overseas but show the local guys some support Mr Meyer.

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  38. @Tjoppa: Tjoppa, you’ve also deviated from the thread, forget Wynberg, Ruggersake is a supporter of theirs. The bigger issue is not about Macleod Henderson who none of us can say will be a good or bad coach, ha ha not even Brad himself knows as he is relatively inexperienced, but it’s about a union with a new board including Gaham Mackenzie and Steven Saad (the CEO of Aspen) who had the foresight to appoint a CEO, and give him powers to be as disruptive as possible prior to his actual appointment date! And then to appoint Van Zyl as his mentor, yet he elects to exclude his mentor from any of his decisions. Strange novice behavior by all of them and not good for Sharks rugby. Any guessing who the actual coach will be? One guess

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  39. @McCulleys Workshop: Was involved with a few bigger companies changing hands and the best advise I ever received was “do it in a manner that nobody notice”. Also was witness of a few “snotkoppe” that thought they knew better and was without a job within a few years.
    I have spoken my mind about Wynberg.

    But all the luck to the Sharkies. I think they are going to need that and plenty more.

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  40. The Sharks confirmed that discussions were held today between representatives of themselves and John Plumtree (“the Parties”).

    It was mutually and amicably agreed between the Parties to part ways with immediate effect.

    The terms of the agreement concluded between the Parties are confidential.

    Stephen Saad, the Chairman of The Sharks said: “We thank John for his wonderful contribution to Sharks rugby over many years. He has been a loyal and faithful employee and The Sharks have benefitted greatly by his input. We are also grateful for the impeccable manner in which he has conducted himself during challenging times in the last while. We wish John all the best in his future endeavours.”

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  41. Durban – Craig Jamieson, captain of the first Natal team to win a Currie Cup, has slammed the Sharks management for their treatment of coach John Plumtree.

    Speaking to The Mercury’s website, Jamieson lashed out at the ‘unethical’ and ‘shoddy’ treatment of Plumtree.

    “I think the whole process has been a bit of a disaster,” said Jamieson, who captained Natal to their 18-12 victory against Northern Transvaal at Loftus Versfeld in 1990.

    Plumtree was a team-mate of Jamieson on that historic day, playing on the flank.

    Plumtree was also part of the Currie Cup-winning Natal team of 1996, later he would go on to win the Currie Cup twice as a coach.

    Jamieson, who was once also a top administrator at the Natal Union, said new Sharks CEO John Smit may be a “legend on the rugby field”, but he was “an Under-19 player in the business world”.

    Jamieson claimed Plumtree had been given a verbal guarantee that his coaching contract would be extended for another two years.

    Outgoing Sharks CEO Brian van Zyl has said he wanted John Plumtree to remain as Sharks coach for at least the next two years.

    Jamieson praised Plumtree, who led the Sharks to two Currie Cup titles, two Currie Cup finals and a Super Rugby final, for his coaching.

    This year, however the Sharks experienced a slump in Super Rugby due to the team being plagued by injuries.

    Jamieson said new CEO Smit’s conduct was baffling.

    “There can be different ideas of the way forward on the field, and no one’s against freshening up the way the team plays, but there’s a right way and a wrong way to go about making changes, and in Plum’s case the matter has been handled badly,” Jamieson said.

    Jamieson said Smit’s first decision as Sharks CEO may be one he will come to regret.

    “It’s a very radical move. To be honest, it’s a gamble, and only time will tell whether it succeeds. But whatever happens, Plumtree has been treated shoddily after all his years of loyalty as a player and a coach,” Jamieson said.

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  42. What coaching experience does BMH have other than coaching the Hilton 1st XV, just seems like a little bit of an odd jump straight from one season at schoolboy level to one of the largest rugby franchises in the country. He must have something special that we don’t know about or else there’s not a lot of logic behind this appointment.

    Not blaming BMH, but, clearly there’s not a lot of love lost between Smit and Plumtree.

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  43. @WBHS Griffon: just like leading a national rugby team translates into being the CEO of a union, is all simple Maths. Or coaching overseas, and a season or two at club level, and two seasons of schoolboy translates into coaching the Sharks. Hey maybe he is just the CC coach and Barney himself is the S15 coach, remember he was rumoured to be the actual coach when PDivvy was the national coach.

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  44. @McCulleys Workshop: If you had a say would you have kept Plumtree on for two more years? 8 seasons is a long time. Personally I feel uncomfortable about the way things are being handled but I think it was time for change. In terms of succession planning the Sharks have been caught out but that is partly due to Plum having HRE and Bash as assistants. I think the mistake is not landing a confidence inspiring coaching team. Instead its inexperienced and under the guidance of a guy none of us are even sure will be around much. So I’m not unhappy with Plum going but wish the decision-making was more sound.

    I think the du Plessis bros are at an age now when they have to start thinking of retirement nest eggs. 2-3 years abroad will go a long way. Personally I don’t think leadership changes at Kings Park would have adjusted their decisions.

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  45. @Tjoppa: Ja SARU has erred by selecting overseas players. Unless the player is exceptional and has no equal in SA, this practice should be avoided at all costs. Players who move overseas should see it as handing in their international resignations and must realise that they are only ever likely to receive SOS calls.

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  46. @beet: Beet, I think there have been too many changes all too soon. What seems to be a new board with Saad and company, a new very inexperienced CEO, making decisions before his appointment, and a strange new coaching set up. So I think change has been necessary, not all at once though, and I have no problem with a new coach, it was just very poorly handled and the guy is hardly a criminal – so I think the decision making across the board leaves a lot to be desired. Would I have kept him for two years, I thought he was past his sell by awhile back. Just treat the man with respect.

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  47. When Smith was a passenger at best for the last 4 years of his career Plum looked after him and covered for him…. 2 years too much for Johnny boy?
    Would not like my son to be contracted or managed by such an irrational management team…time to reconsider and look at the other options away from the Sharks rather. Loyalty works both ways.

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  48. @beet: I see that, but, my point is that his pedigree just seems a little light at this stage, only time will tell.

    I think Craig Jamieson hit the nail on the head by speaking about risk. Does seem like a high risk move for someone in a new position.

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  49. @GREENMOM: It’s a risky move for sure and Smit may well pay the price only time will tell, however, loyalties and previous history aside we’ll all be singing Smit’s praises if the move pays off.

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  50. @RBugger: I notice that the question of racism in rugby has once again been revived. Are we going to continue to debate the issue just superficially and selectively or are we going to do this in depth? If we are going to focus on selective issues, let us SHUT THE HELL UP!! If we are going to do so in depth and properly, let us discuss all forms of racism in rugby- quotas.

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  51. @BOG: Amazing how much this racism issue gets under your skin – it is just weird!

    Quotas – wrong, I do not agree with the quota system at all! There are enough players of colour that can hold their own and are going to good schools, so the quota system should be dropped!!

    All I was saying to Tjoppa, is that using a racist remark is not acceptable! Was the Wynberg behaviour acceptable towards the ref, maybe not… But who was the ref and where was he from? If the Wynberg boys were badly behaved, they will have a talking too. But I also respect them for showing loyalty towards a team mate and standing for what is right.

    Imagine this happened at Super15 level, calling another player the K word! It is not on and I am afraid you simply can’t argue on that point

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  52. @RBugger: One thing I dont understand so well..in what way did the Wynberg boys show loyalty towards a team mate?…By cursing at the ref and showing disrespect to an appointed official?..Is one curse worse than another?..is some bad behaviour a few degrees worse than any other?…I would think that any bad behavior in any form should be punished..on both sides. The question still remains, what did Wynberg do about the incident?..Where there absolutely no guilty parties in that team that behaved in an improper way?..I dont think so!

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  53. @Boishaaipa: It is obvious how they showed loyalty towards their team mate! It is clear there is a problem here and my good-ness, I did not realise how rife racism is in this country – being away for 7 years, I thought things may have changed slightly :(

    The point in question is not about Wynberg, it is about the remark and attitude of the Gim boy. I have no idea what happened to the Wynberg Boy/s in question and quite frankly, I do not care.

    To me, I find it admirable that they stood as one and left the field – if they did not, I would presume a fight would have occured.

    Anyway, I am not having a dig at you personally, you obviously are firm in your views and will not budge on that front and that is fair enough – Like wise, I am firm in my views and feel the Gim boy was wrong

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  54. It is truly unfortunate that almost 20 years since our own “Reformation” these issues of race are still on the table. If everyone had done their bit we would not be here.

    First off, it would appear that Paarl Gim has handled the matter well, objectively and with decorum. If they continue to perform as they have in the past 2 years, people will be speaking of this era in the same way as they do Grey College and Maritzburg in the Skonk era. As a leader on the field it is imperative that they show zero tolerance to unacceptable behaviour off the field. Two wrongs do not make a right and full credit to them.

    Second, should quotas still exist. Frankly, this really does stick in the throat. Personally, we experienced an unwholesome incident many years back where sponsorship for my son’s provincial soccer team was withdrawn because the team was “too white”. This is not something one would wish on one’s worst enemy. That said, I do not believe that sufficient progress has been made to do away with this “necessary evil”.

    Third, it is unfortunate that most of the burden is falling in the wrong place. When one hears of talented kids of colour being unable to attend schools or trials owing to a deficiency of funds it is clear that too much is being done at a superficial level, and the Government iteself is failing to come to the party in terms of development funds and development support. This is not limited to rugby, and the same accusations can be levelled for every other sport; most obviously and ironically football.

    I am of the opinion (and I may be wrong), that 90% of potential future superstars are not reliant on CW, are identified in advance by the respective Academies in any event – or by word of mouth – and will be given the appropriate opportunities. It is perhaps the fringe players that are most disadvantaged. In the meantime the disproportionate opportunity given to maybe “fringe” players of colour might be just the necessary lucky-break to enable them access to better resources and training that might enable them to make it.

    It is almost impossible to have this kind of conversation without feeling a little nauseated. In an imperfect world, we sometimes need “least bad” rather than “best” solutions.

    As a complete aside, good luck to BMH. The appointment has certainly been a messy affair. Hopefully, we see the right results on the field. One does feel for Plum though!

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  55. If we’re digressing, let’s stick to facts (or at least what we know to have happened):

    1) No report of any Gim player being provoked
    2) Protest was made to the ref. No report from the ref or anyone else about the Wynberg boys being rude/or using foul language towards an official or anyone else.This would have surely come up in the hearing.
    3) A Gim player has been found guilty of racially abusing another player.

    1A) Do players provoke each other on the rugby field? Yes all the time – as long as it is within the spirit of the game and does not hamper on another’s constitutional rights.Very tough to stick by,but that is how it should be.
    2A) Do players protest a ref’s decision on the rugby field? Yes all the time.It will not change a referee’s decision, and any protest should be done so in a mature manner.I have seen no report of barbaric protest by the Wynberg players.
    3A) Do players racially abuse each other on the field? Yes a lot of the time. This is not the first time, and neither is it the last.BUT IT IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TO DO SO.The said player has been found guilty and duly punished.

    No 16 years old should be using the K word.It is just saddening to think that there is a generation that still feels it’s ok to insult a person like that.

    No Wynberg player has been reported of being crude/provoking anyone, and no one has been found quilty of any offense of that nature.Let us stick to the facts.

    Quotas
    I will entertain this, as i had hoped beet would create a discussion on it seperate from any other news. There is a tendency of people bringing up quotas whenever there is a report of racial abuse, even when totally unrelated to it.I am a black 31 year old and this is my standpoint:
    I do not believe that a white player should be overlooked for a black player when he is clearly a better player. That is just wrong.What I do believe in is equal opportunity.

    Take for example, Lwazi Mvovo.He went to a previously disadvantaged school, didnt even play rugby till he was 17.He was spotted on the track, taken into “care”, and developed properly and individually to a point where he has even commanded a starting place in the Boks.He went to Maria Louw, which is about 15km from Queens College.No player, black or white from QC or any other advantaged school gets the type of individual attention Mvovo got.That is what I believe should be happening.Instead of focusing on just picking players who aren’t ready,the focus should be on developing.But the downside is that Mvovo is a wing, a position the blacks in our country believe is “the one reserved for players of colour”…this should be happening for other players in other positions.

    In short, in as much as “quotas” are a form of discrimination, as long as the playing fields are not level, an imbalanced approach to deveolpment needs to happen. As Parochial put it, the least bad solution is more pertinent than the best solution here.

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  56. @RBugger: I do not condone the use of any abusive term or remark, I think you have the facts slightly wrong. The Wynberg boys did not leave the field of play or walked off in support of their mate…they were still fighting with the ref when the game was called off…Only then did they leave the field of play, After the match was called off and that is in Wynberg’s Headmaster own words.

    @Playa..Nowhere did I say or indicate that is is OK to insult someone in any way or form, but the issue is so focused here on what the Gim player said that the rudeness and improper conduct of the Wynberg boys is totally ignored….Yes, lets stick to the facts. ..NOTHING has been done about their part in this mess, so there can be no guilty outcome!…Do you honestly think that they did nothing to provoke that type of behaviour?..The Gim player/s who was found guilty was punished, but the there was not even a whisper of something done by Wynberg…Calling someone a “fokken skelm boer” is probably OK then!…This whole incident is sadly an indication of how much bullshit we have to endure nowadays..There is always two sides to a story and yes, the Gim player was wrong and was punished accordingly…but thinking the Wynberg Boys is totally innocent in this whole saga is just plain ignorant!

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  57. @BoishaaiPa: Agree 100%. Al we ask is justice for all. Nothing more nothing less. I never said do not discipline the Paarl Gim boy. All I asked was that Wynberg also discipline their boys and let the world know what was done.
    On quotas I agree 100% we must do something to adress the wrongs of the past. But do it via development and not law.

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  58. @BoishaaiPa: No I did not say that you think it is ok, I said that the player (and whoever else in his generation) who abused the other felt it was ok to do so.

    As far as I understand, chirping/protesting a ref is dealt with on the field, by the ref.10 mters given to the other side/a yellow card/penalty are the known punishments handed.In this case, according to the report, the ref awarded a penalty after the try was scored to punish the Wynberg boys for their ‘improper’ behaviour.Therefore making the Wynberg players’ behaviour punished.Correct me if I am wrong.

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  59. @Playa: Maybe the ref stopped the match because Wynberg Boys would not react to penalties etc. You are defending a bunch of hooligans that could not accept the humiliation on the field by a far superior team, 33-0. Carry on you are creating the next generation of Malemas and look even the ANC got tired of him.

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  60. @Tjoppa: I have. Many times.We’re all human.I am by no means saying this boy must not be forgiven, and neither am I writing him off as a human being.He did something wrong, he’s young, my hope is that he learns and grows from this.

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  61. @Playa: The ref in question was a young girl who was verbally abused by the Wynberg players, after the penalty had been given as well!..That behaviour is not to be condoned either. The fact that the ref was not up to handling the match is neither here nor there…just like you do not use racist remarks against opponents you do not abuse a ref…I doubt if they would have behaved that way with an adult male who would have probably handled the situation better, but the fact of the matter is that they are not so unblemished and innocent as all would like to believe..and with that I will end this topic!

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  62. @Tjoppa: You are being emotional and losing site of the facts here mate.Don’t speculate when you have the facts.

    There are 2 basic rules in rugby: a) play to the whistle b)play your game, not the opponent or the ref

    The Wynberg boys played the referee, and were punished for it, full stop.Dont try and bring your speculative thoughts,emotion and politics into this.You’re better than that.

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  63. @Playa: No politics I am sure every parent can tell you what happens if you do not discipline your children. But let us agree to disagree.

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  64. @BoishaaiPa: Agreed. I am speaking from the reports, which say that the players “protested”.A word that should never be confused with “abuse/violent” behaviour.Players protest referees’ decisions all the time – within limit.And is a matter dealt with on the rugby field.
    I earlier said that if the Wynberg boys abused anyone, that should come up and that should be dealt with.The referee should be the first to report (which I havent yet heard or seen to date).It’s my first time hearing from you that there was abuse directed at the ref.I cannot assume anything beyond the facts available to me as I was not there.

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  65. @Playa: There is different versions to every story you hear…somewhere in the middle is the truth. The simple fact is that neither team or players can be proud of that moment, but that only one or two from one particular team is found guilty and investigated sounds a bit one-eyed to me.

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  66. Thanks lads, racism is wrong, unconstitutional and barbaric. Yes, if the Wynburg players were abusing the ref who happened to be female then they too need to be dealt with and reminded of what gentlemanly values are.

    As far as BMH is concerned, the big question for me is, who takes over at Hilton. I know that most Hilton staff members were offended that a coach was valued greater than them in terms of salary package with his limited range of responsibility. Will Hilton continue to hire a professional coach or will they revert back to a schoolmaster.

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  67. As die skeidsregter die wedstryd gestop het omdat Wynberg nie verder wou speel nie moet die betrokke span verbied word om verder te speel.As hulle voorgeloop het sou hulle nie afgeloop het nie.Ons was laasjaar deur dieselfde,en geregtigheid het geseevier.Die span het nie van die veld gestap maar het n amtelike verslag na die wedstryd gedoen wat gelei het tot speler se skuldigbevinding.
    As ons n kultuur skep van afstap as daar goed is wat pla,sal daar nie baie wedstryde klaarmaak

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  68. @Tarpeys – good question. And I understand why the school masters would have a valid reason for a gripe.

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  69. @Rugger fan: Why the coach is a reason why a learner will pick a certain school. Teachers are the reason why boys want to leave. So who do you pay the most. :evil: :mrgreen: :evil: :mrgreen:

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  70. looks like we will have two coaches being paid now – one to coach the team and one due to breach of contract . This is the problem when you lack experiance for a position . I am sure that the sharks needed a change if for no other reason than familiarity but we need to remember that Plumb has done a good job for the sharks and his treatment simply cannot be justified . Silly mistakes cost money . This does seem to smack a little of old boys club . I suspect that BMH is a little light for this job – should have been assistant coach for a Super rugby team for a while . School to big time will be a very big step for him and I suspect the players will have the final say – If they approve then he will get some results but if not then its going to be a long and lonely season

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