South African schoolboy rugby is well into it’s drama filled Craven Week selection season now. Of the major regions, KwaZulu-Natal, the Bulls, Eastern Province, Boland and South Western Districts have concluded trials and made their selections. This week there appears to be at least two storms brewing when Western Province and Border make their teams official this week.
It’s an annual story and one that was probably never envisaged when Craven Week first came about. As a result of all sorts of doubts over the integrity of selections, an event which was meant to showcase the very best school rugby talent that South Africa has to offer, is now lucky if it reveals a fraction greater than 1 over 2 of the talent pool. As a result of different kinds for politics that have in some instances crept in the process and in other cases been openly forced upon regions, there seem to be common consensus that the week-long national tournament is now no longer the benchmark it once set out to be and has to be supplemented by other school tournaments into order to get a true feel for who the better players are in most regions each season.
Each year people struggle to come to terms with the objective of the quota system, which at present stands at a compulsory 9 out of 22 for Craven Week. There never seems to be any assessment and public feedback on this quota system either. Is it achieving its desired goals or is it falling short of the aims it initially set out to achieve. The motive of using quota to drive development seems plausible but when it results in an unjustified reward to players who are not up to the required standard, well then it just seems like an exercise of window-dressing. Furthermore we have regions like the Bulls and to a less obvious extent KwaZulu-Natal, who depend on players recruited from other regions to fill their Previously Disadvantaged places in the teams each year. Whether this is part of the set out goal of the quota system or not remains unclear.
For all its perceived flaws, the quota system is a constant and the rule itself is transparent. What gets under people’s skins is politics of another nature, the favouritism aspect. Rugby is a big draw card for most big schools in South Africa. Because the sport is so publicised in the media, schools actually stand the risk of being measured adversely purely because their 1st XV achievements on the rugby field are not what they are expected to be. So it’s obvious that schools also stand to gain a lot of marketing mileage if selections work out in their favour. It’s from this point onwards that one has to scrutinise and question the independence of those who are entrusted to make the final decisions regarding selections, and specifically look at where they draw their motivations and salaries from. Often the decision-makers are closely aligned to schools in their region so an exercise of matching the number of players picked to schools represented by selectors does have the tendency to produce interesting results. In the face of the pressures being exerted on coaches and rugby support staff to achieve desired goals and in some cases with incentive bonuses being linked to success, one can see the enormous challenge in front of those who have to make unbiased calls on who to select versus who to leave out.
Finally it’s just starting to come to the fore now but the involvement of Rugby Unions in the selection process is something that is bound to take off in the years to come. As professionalism grows in school rugby, the use of Craven Week to promote those players seeking to make a profession out of the sport after school and have committed their immediate futures to playing in the region after they finish schooling, is bound to have an influence on who gets selected and who misses out. It’s not certain where the Bulls stand on this matter at present and what role they play in securing the services of imported PD players that end up at a handful of Pretoria school like Garsfontein and Southdowns. The Border Rugby Union did however made this union influence concept apparent last year when they purposely excluded boys who had already signed contracts with other unions. Going forward, unions may be a lot more discrete / secretive than Border about their true intentions but the opportunity is definitely there for them to manipulate the selection process so that it works out in their favour.
How do you know all this? Queenian, this boy is in grade 11, its a bit late for buying him for matric
So the Bulls up to some tricks I see
@rugbyfan: Ye I know they are, it is the wing Danquah this will be a disaster if they get him as well, but all effort is being put into stopping this what is amazing is the contract offered to him differed with one paragraph to the other two Queenians offered contracts who are white were he is black, in that he must attend a school in the Bulls area now if that is not quota orientated I don’t know what is. Basically a race issue as well.
@Queenian: I don’t think you will stop the Bulls plundering of Queens for quota purposes the agents they use have no mercy or thought for what they are doing in one word its barbaric to say the least, in one word there arrogance and lack of conscience for what they do is mind blowing.
They are ready targeting another Queens Grade 11 kid.
@Stormberg Mountains: Ye agree I think being under the EPCD banner would solve a lot of issues. Now we must just sort out the Bulls quota poaching issue at Queens.
Haha wow this could work… And how are the chances of this happening, wouldn’t mind teaming up with St Andrews and Marlow in the EPCD, no wonder we have scheduled a lot of fixtures on that side of the fish river, because now we play Kingswood, Marlow, St Andrews, Cradock High plays our 2nd Team, Grey High, and rumours are we are soon to play Graeme College. Exciting times… LETS JUMP AND JIVE THE QC TEAM HAS JUST ARRIVED!!!
@Stormberg Mountains: The reason for there maybe not been any Queenians in the team is the old contracts issue again were 5 Queenians have signed contracts with the Bulls/Sharks/Kings and looks like they wont be eligible for Border.
It is called a big mess up and thanks to the Border Rugby Union
@Stormberg Mountains: Probably because the rumour may be true that QC has applied to form part of EP/EPCD as a result of Border’s crazy selection criteria.
@Ludz: Doubt Somila Jho will make it.He’s been playing 2nds this season as he is carrying an injury which has hampered his performance.He shouldn’t be playing any rugby in my opinion, as he looks very uncomfortable on the field.
And i certainly think Simon Bolze and Justin Hollis are those individuals
If i may ask, why wouldn’t there be any Queenians in the team, they might not be having an awesome season, but still rate they have individuals that many schools cannot rival
@Ludz: @CHS13: There might not be any Queenian picked for the team hence the delay in naming it.
The dale prop is now under19 as far as i know.
@CHS13: if that were indeed the team, the no.8 would be Hollis, no.9 would be Kewan Gibb, no.13 would be Somila Jho or Sibahle Maxwane. The lock in all probability is Lona Ntsila, no clue who the Dalian is, just wondering where the Dalian prop would be considering he was already at Craven Week last year
@BOG: Bog and all the others you must admit that the SWD have better players than the other unions , black or white ,yellow or green ,…bet you the SWD will produce the first Indian SA schools player as well,..especially since we are getting the Guptas to sponsor and organize landing rights for the Affies team that will play the Kwaggas at their anniversary. I agree with your comment on the poaching,..but I’m just glad that the boys get noticed and signed by the unions
@Queenian: I won’t say that this is the official/confirmed team, but the Border CW team should look something like this based on what one of the players told me when he made the team:
1. Lali (Stirling)
2. J. Reinecke (Cambridge)
3. T. Mtsi (Selborne)
4. (Queens)
5. (Dale)
6. J. Steyn (Selborne)
7. J. Harty (Selborne)
8. Harley (sp) (Queens)
9. (Queens)
10. L. Gosa (Selborne)
11. J. Danquah(sp) (Queens)
12. S. Bolze (Queens)
13. Not sure… Might be Dale 13
14. C. Mqingwana (Selborne)
15. (Selborne)
@rugbyfan: That’s WP – don’t know about Border though
@BuffelsCM: Is that WP and what about Border
@rugbyfan: It should be announced today !!
@BoishaaiPa: When they going to announce the WP teams
Why no WP or Border teams yet or are the stories true that are doing the rounds
@Maroon: Well..the principle is the same..different coaches prefer different players…some selectors might not agree with what coaches have done..Doc Craven often selected players from Matie 3rd and 2nd teams to go on and play WP..Some of them even straight from the 3rd teams!…did not even play Maties or Vics!…It is not as questionable as you would like it to be..just not the norm!…But lets first see who gets selected and then we can debate this…We could be way off anyway!
@BoishaaiPa: unfair question :). That wing does however not play for the Cheetah’s Vodacom side, or the Griekwa B team.
@Maroon:You did not read my post…I said there is more to a team than an individual player…They 4 playing above them might fit better into the structure for team purposes.
Let me try this one on you…Who was the best game breaking SA wing/fullback last year and this year in Super Rugby and Currie Cup?…was he the best wing?…did he fit into the Bok coach playing pattern?..
@Maroon: I’d like to know why the team will only be announced today. According to yesterday’s “Die Burger” the selectors wanted to study video footage of the final trials. I’ve said it yesterday but why do they still need to look at video footage ?? These boys have played numerous times this year. I can’t see the reason for the delay in announcing the team.
The following quote of Beet above…. is spot on I guess:
“This week there appears to be at least two storms brewing when Western Province and Border make their teams official this week.”
I’d like to see the GK team as well
I do however support your view that the boys are not to blame. The selection however is questionable.
@BoishaaiPa: It is possible, but highly unlikely that these 4 boys are the best in their positions. At the very least, the 4 playing above them at Boishaai are better than them.
We all know what is coming with the WP team….There is at least 4 Boys that was in the WP A-trial team that cannot make their schools 1st team because they were dropped. That is not to say these boys are not talented and good enough, there is more to a team than just individual players though. If they get selected for WP, just remember than they did not pick themselves and that indivual selectors from the same school will not be so stupid as to punt someone for WP they actually dropped at school level. It only means that the majority of the other selectors think the boys deserve the spot and perhaps played well enough during trials to impress them.
@beet: Do you have the Border Craven week team if you do please email it to me.
@beet: One good thing is if all the Queens boys are excluded from Craven Week they go to Cape Schools week with a full team.
@BOG: You are 100% correct.
@BOG: Well said BOG. Social engineering is an apt description. That being said, before anyone jumps to confusion, the change in the demographics and the development of all players in SA is fantastic. However if we have arrived at the current level of professionalism/social engineering, union intervention, seemingly biased selection processes, where do we get to in 5 years time?
@Predator: In SWD, Boland and EC/Border, the game of rugby is a first choice- you dont need to force feed them. In other areas, rugby, more often than not, is second or even third choice after soccer and more recently, even basketball.Im talking of players “of colour”. And that is in the old model C or previously white schools. In previously black schools, rugby simply does not exist. Yes, they can “develop” but developing there and developing in SWD , Boland, WP an EC have vastly different meanings. And this is why the poaching/ buying, call it what you want, wiil continue for as long as the requirement of quotas persist. Where else will they find reasonable players for their quota component at CW. Yet more confirmation that social engineering simply does not work and why it is morally objectionable to and decent living human.
In SWD there is also the applied science of quotas, but we have one advantage over the rest of the country, our so called quota players are actually the best in their position in the SWD and even in SA for that matter. We have developed these boys into brilliant rugby players and exposed them to the toughest rugby platforms in SA. At Outeniqua ( Kwaggas ) in George they had arguably some the best players from disadvantaged areas for the past years, they are not seen as quota players, ..in fact they are the stars in the team ( Warrick Galant, Dewalt Human, Leighton Eksteen, Gior and Remi Malan . We are proud to have these boys play for us, we see them as brilliant rugby talent and never has race been an issue at this top school. We feed the SWD trials with the best players that our school has to offer. We perform well at Craven week because our boys are there on merit.
@Roger: yawn, sounds like KZN!
@spot: I don’t get your point. The quota system does not work both ways with regard to your PD/PA players. It only works in favour of PD players. The side is not limited to 9 PD players, but it is certainly capped at 13 PA players. Surely 19 years later a quota system should not apply?
@spot: Then again, Bryan Habana went to KES, Sergeal Petersen went to Grey PE and JP Pietersen went to General Hertzhog, and I doubt they were there to ‘fill the quota’. They were probably outstanding at that level already, and would have made it in rugby regardless of their colour.
According to Wiktionary the meaning “quota” is “A proportional part or share; the share or proportion assigned to each in a division” or “A prescribed number or percentage that may serve as, for example, a maximum, a minimum, or a goal.”
Therefore it makes sense to say that CW teams have a quota of Previously Advantaged (PA) players and a quota of Previously Disadvantaged (PD) players. PA players compete for 13 places and PD players compete for 9 places in the team. Whether this system is good or bad is one discussion. Whether certain players in both quotas deserve their selection is another.
It would be interesting to learn, say over a period of the last 10 years of CW, what the success ratio would be per year for each of the quotas. The baseline could be 1st class rugby at Currie Cup level. Or it could be lowered to Vodacom Cup level even. My guess would be 7/13 for PA players and 2/9 for PD players?
I suppose without the quota system, there would not have been a Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Sergeal Petersen, etc. etc. The quota system will not be made away soon, not in our generation. Maybe the 3rd generation will be ready to base selections on pure merit and without bias.
@beet: No, he was not young for his age, as I played in the same age group as him for our football club despite him being a year lower than me at school. As you can imagine, he was a bloody good footballer too. That said, don’t forget that the open age group in those days was u17….so he was u18 in his repeated matric year and then u19 the following year.
Yep, I was also surprised that he made the Bok side in ’92 ahead of Oosthuizen. I remember watching the Oz team play N Tvl at Loftus on that ’92 tour and seeing him sitting in a box next to me with all the Bokke taking notes on the Aussies (didn’t work!). It was surreal to see a school mate sitting with the Bokke as a teammate – especially as that the Bokke had reached mythical status given that there had been so few tests in the preceding ten years.
@Vleis: Wow but I remember he made his Transvaal debut when he was just 19 so he must have been young in matric 1st time round then. He must have played Currie Cup in 1988. He tore his hammy the one season as well. That sidelined him for quite a while. In 1992 I thought Pieter Hendriks and Deon Oosthuizen would be the Bok wings for sure. Small’s inclusion was a bit of a surprise to me.
@Roger: He played center in ’85, which was his Gr11 year and my final year. Then he followed his girlfriend to Eden College in ’86, so played no rugby that year. If memory serves, Eden did not go to well as she dumped him, so he plugged matric. There are many jokes about him plugging many years, but that was the only year that he failed.
Our 1st team rugby coach invited James to his office at the end of ’86 to convince him to return to Greenside in ’87 to repeat matric. However, James initially declined as he didn’t want to go back to a strict school environment (Eden was like a Varsity), so the coach promised him that he would not be treated like a kid and promptly lit up a cigarette and offered one to James. That was when James knew that he shoulf return.
The coach moved him to fullback, which suited his play much better than centre and the rest is history.
@Vleis: I thought James was ’86 at Greenside? Was he ’87?
@Vleis: they beat KES 16-4 at the Sainst festival – I think Michael Ehrentraut was in that team – brilliant player. You are right – they were very good. The ’87 team’s crowning glory was beating Dale at KES – Dale were unbeaten and on tour in JHB and that loss was their only one for the season
Our mutual mate was a very good player – I played with him in that 2nd XV in ’88. I was a couple years younger and he was kept out of the 1st XV by the TVL Schools hooker in ’88
@Roger: By the way, the “few others” that the ’87 side beat included my school….with James Small playing at FB.
@Roger: Yep, that’s the one.
No shame in losing to the ’87 Bishops team. If I remember correctly (I was at UCT at the time), many thought that they were the best team in the country that year. I watched them wallop Maritzburg College (who were very strong in those days) by 41 to 9. College’s captain was Brenton Catterall who played for SA schools and then in the RWC a few years later for Zim.
@Vleis: does your mate perhaps come from a family of Insurance Brokers
’87 were very good too – lost to Bishops and Boys High only, beat Monnas, Grey PE, Michaelhouse and a few others. ’86 ’88 and ’90 were special teams though
@Roger: My mate played for the 2nd team in ’88. His brother played for the 1st team in ’87 – also a very good team I hear. My mate lost only one match through his entire school career at KES, then did post-matric at Kingswood and lost only 2 matches… and then played rugby at Grahamstown Universtity and did not win a match!
I agree that the players are much bigger today than they were when we played, but the current KES 1st team side that played Westville is definitely smaller. As my son said, they look small for an u16 team….but they were very skillful, as is the hallmark of all KES back-lines.
@Vleis: i didn’t watch it and was very surprised by the result – they obviously played out of their skins on Homecoming Day. Having said that – I do think they are a better team than their results suggest and they have been decimated by injuries. Bring on Boys High this w/end – win and all is forgiven
It was the class of ’88 25th year reunion so was a fitting tribute to the ’88 Reds who were an outstanding team, lost only one game and beat the likes of Paarl Boys High, Monnas, Glenwood (easily
) and Grey PE.
Re: Craven week – remember those days well – the TVL “A” team was all Afrikaans (bar one or two) and the TVL XV team was all English (bar one or two). Speaking of the KES ’88 team – the entire backline made the TVL XV team bar the flyhalf (who made the TVL “A” team) and the scrumhalf who wasn’t selected – that KES backline were brilliant – yet today they would be steamrollered by these 110kg monsters posing as schoolboys
@Roger: Did you watch the KES v Monnas game on Saturday? A mate went to his KES 25th school reunion this weekend and said that there was a great atmosphere at the game. KES must have played very well, as they have a tiny 1st team (the smallest I have ever seen) and are missing their top players like Rashard and Marco.
@Roger: I played at the time when the english schools and afrikaans schools had separate CW teams in Johannesburg. As such, my co-ed school had two or three players in the team every year….apart from my year, when we had zero.
@Rugger fan: He has served half of his sentence already!
@BuffelsCM: Agree fully.
SA (Springbok) rugby had a bad reputation a while back – I think we have shaken that as been the bad boys of international rugby – i agree fully that foul play should be penalised. Too often players have gotten away with this. I just trust thatnthe same sanction would have been placed if it was in either a lower tier school (or for that matter at a lower age group level).
i think the red card on the weekend against Maritzburg college was a good example – not necessarily premeditated and blatantly dirty – but foul play none the less – and a red card was warranted.
@Rugger fan: It was posted here last week. It is sending the right message !!
A strong message to a GW player, and all others accused of foul play:
http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/sa-schoolboy-gets-80-week-ban
@beet: good question – in the Lions case – the Union has always had a close relationship with Monnas and now laterally, with Florida. The English schools have not always towed the “party line” so to speak – one example is the refusal in the past to participate in the Administrators Cup (now Beeld Trophy). It extends further – the tier 2 schools do not even get a look in – Vleis will tell you, in the past – their were some outstanding players from the JHB co-ed schools who did not even get invited to trials yet Monnas had the entire 1st and 2nd XV’s invited!
@Queenian: yes thank you very much. I would publish it along with the Border team but just looking for final confirmation of the situation on the ground
@Roger: This issue goes further though. Why has it been allowed to go on for years without being challenged.
Why can’t those schools disadvantaged by the decisions just stand together and say no more – we want reform!
Lions has always been laughable and this year proves a point again. KES and Monnas play to a 31 all draw. Monnas has twelve in the Lions U18 squad and KES zero.
KES has had a very mediocre season – granted – but when one of the perrenial powerhouses of Lions rugby does not get one player selected – in the U18 squad no less – then it smacks of bias! Has been the case towards Monnas for years
@BOG: The shocker about quota,s it has a triple impact look at the Fortuin boy that the Bulls took from Queens now firstly Queens lose a star/a Bulls player will now lose out because this boy gets brought into there system and the school he lands up at a boy also loses the chance to play 1st team.
And this all in the name of quota,s
@BOG: I think what is happening with the Border setup will just send more Queenians across the Orange river to GCB which is good for us but i suppose not good for rugby as a whole, myself i find it sad what is happening to schools like Queens specially since the history between our great schools.
For as long as merit and nothing else is not the only criteria for selection, controversy will continue, no matter how it is sugar coated or presented by the spin doctors. Simple. And if you want to accuse me of being a right wing, racist fascist with Nazi ways, go ahead. Before 1994, I was called a communist. What was wrong then, is wrong now. A principle works quite simple- it is consistent. And quotas tarnishes ALL players.
@Queenian: I heard in Grahamstown on Saturday that 7 of the Queens boys were not eligable to play for Border this year any truth in that and i got that from a Grey PE teacher.
Have Border anounced they Cravenweek team yet.
@beet: I couldn’t agree with you more !!
The GK selections will also make some interesting reading – expect a BIG reply by Ploegskaar!!
I have commented about this last week. The no 6 flank (which is an excellent player IMO) had to move to loosehead for the last 10 minutes against Boland. The 2 best loosehead props were not at the final trials – one a redhead and the other a blonde
@beet: You get my sms i have ask Queens for clarity on the issue but they say they would not like to comment at this stage so something is brewing by the looks of things.
@BuffelsCM: Like I say I think there is a major storm on the way in the Western Cape.
The thing I’m concerned about is the selectors want to point to all the obvious choices they make – the core players. These are the boys even the general public would chose. This year you’re not gonna be defined as a great selector simply by picking Bothma, Schickerling, Oosthuizen, Vermeulen, du Toit etc. This does not involve high level expertise.
The experience of the selectors is meant to come into play with making the calls on the players that back up the core and how these guys will fit into the overall team structure and strategy etc. Those are the players they should have been paying more careful attention to from trial game no. 1. The bread and butter stuff of the selection process.
BTW I’ve noticed in the Boland CW’s team, Johan du Toit, younger brother of Pieter-Steph du Toit was selected as no 5 lock. Hanro Liebenberg, younger brother of Wiaan Liebenberg, captain of last year’s SA U/20 side, was selected as No 8.
Good article Beet !!
In this morning’s newspaper, Die Burger, it was reported that the Western Province selectors need to have another look at the video analysis of the final trials in order to ensure that the correct choices are made.
Why did they have trials in the first place ? The players had to play a number of matches. After that the group was cut to about 60+ players. Then a final group of 58 for the CW and 41 for the GK got selected. These groups had 2 training sessions and after that they’ve played against Boland in the “final” final trials. That happened on Wednesday last week.
How many meetings do they need to decide on the final squads ?
I must say – quotas or nopt – there seems to be some brilliant players that are classified as PD – but are now there on merit.
One just needs to look at the quality of rugby at last weekends College v Glenwood 1st XV (and even the lower teams) to see that colour in not the issue it used to be. Quality shines through – and almost all 30 guys on the paddock were quality players and a lot of them deserved a good crack at a KZN team – irrespective of school, race, position. Perhaps other provinces do not have this issue – but after a game like that, i believe even without a quota system – a great merit team could be selected and it is probably still going to be racially representative. Perhaps given a few more years quotas will be a thing of the past and merit will shine through – I trust and hope so.
Nice article – thanks. some good points raised in a blanced way.
When will this reach the point where SARU says that no players that are still at school are allowed to sign a contact. This will move the mad rush to the day school goes out. But the real solution will be a draft system but for that to happen all 14 unions need to be more financially secure.