“How money moves rugby schoolboys” was the title of an interesting Prega Govender article in the national paper Sunday Times. The article grouped wealthy schools and rugby unions together as it touched on the sensitive topic of poaching “black” players using financial incentives.
The paper established a tally at 37 pupils poached in recent years from the Eastern Cape and Boland.
The piece is filled with quotes from various school officials.
Of all the rugby unions in South Africa, only the quotes by the Bulls and Sharks officials made it to publication. It does seem appropriate under the circumstances though, as it’s mainly schools in these two regions that are under the spotlight for “poaching” activities.
In the article the schools linked to so called “poaching” are Southdowns, Menlopark, Glenwood, Maritzburg College, Kingswood and off course Garsfontein, whose reputation has been most harmed in recent years by allegations of this nature. There was also a statement from the new KES headmaster in which he denied that his Joburg school goes “shopping” for players.
Westville was not mentioned in the article. However at the start of the year they had two new Western Cape arrivals who returned home after a very short stay in KZN.
GARSFONTEIN
Garsfontein has used the acquisition of players who originally attended schools in the Western Cape to rebuild their rugby programme. In just a few seasons they have gone from a school where the long term survival of rugby was possibly under threat, to a one of the highest ranked rugby schools in South Africa.
The Sunday Times insert mentions the existence of Garsieland, “a non-profit organisation forking out R1.2-million a year to help a school train 20 underprivileged pupils to become top sportsmen.”
Earlier in the year I had a blog which directly related to Garsfontein (http://blog.schoolboyrugby.co.za/?p=2373). This is a segment from an interesting comment posted by a Garsies supporter below that blog which attempts to tell the other side of the story:
“With regards to the kids from the Cape… I challenge any of you to go see where most of these kids come from… they are the poorest of the poor and get NO opportunities down in the Cape… To give them an opportunity, to educate them, give them shelter nutrition and love – is that wrong? This is what happened with many of these kids… They are not from traditionally big schools like Paarl Gym or Boishaai… They are from squatter camps with an uncertain future… Their parents begs for an opportunity… I have been down there myself and seen this… Why not give them the opportunity? Take of the provincial glasses and think of the kids… Your worry in the morning is traffic to work, their worry in the morning was will I get to school alive…”
Another comment made by the same person made on that thread reads:
“The rumour surrounding the Bulls might have been true a few years back, but I can assure you, we get phone calls daily from down in the Cape of parents who wants to give their kids opportunities up here… The politics in WP and Boland schools rugby drives them away big time…”
FINALLY A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION – A CHARTER TO BAN “POACHING”
The Sunday Times mentions that 24 state boys schools have formulated a charter to ban the practice of “poaching.” It’s about time! Hopefully in the coming year this number quadruples.
The newspaper article does not touch on all the driving forces behind the “poaching”.
There is the quota systems employed at the national provincial youth weeks. However good it’s original intentions were as tool designed to spark the development of previously disadvantaged players, somewhere along the line it became corrupted. It’s now in danger of no longer being a development catalyst but rather a Boland and Eastern Cape talented player redistribution agent. Local kids can be completely ignored for development purposes while recruits from the Eastern and Western Cape receive the opportunities made available by quota. The quota system and everything that is meant to go hand in hand with it, is in desperate need of review and modernisation.
It’s also an overwhelming concern that schools no longer trust their core values which have made many of them the great education institutions they are. They have now become so desperate for success relative to their rival schools that they are bending over backwards to try buy this success and are paying huge sums of money for it. Recruitment at under-14 level has long been regarded as an acceptable normal practice. It however does not guarantee success five years down the line at 1st XV level and this is why schools are increasingly looking to recruit boys at under-16 level and older. It is very difficult to persuade good players from financially secure backgrounds to move schools that late on and this is why kids from poor families often become the soft targets of “poaching”. When it comes to rugby schools that act in this manner, they are progressively either taking their cue from professional rugby unions with valueless win at all costs mentalities or from other schools that have achieved success by abandoning some of their own good sensible values.
The charter offers the hope for schools to once again market themselves on a traditional good value system. Play hard, play fair, play to win and play with the boys who have been our own all along and love our school.
@BOG: It’s at Cape st Francis and that is why I stipulated “..seen”…you can come and have a look….I will be sitting on the stoep with a beer!
@BoishaaiPa: Are you crazy? These days I struggle to stay upright on terra fima and you expect me to to take on the surf at J Bay? On a real strong and good day and after I have had my Viagra and vitamins, only then and maybe then, I may venture into the shallow breakers with a body board- if there are life guards on duty
@BOG: Dont let the local from Capies hear you regard them as a suburb of J-Bay!..First time I went to Cape st Francis was in 1969 ..I still go there regularly on holiday as my family has one of those orignal houses on the “Eiland”..right next to where the main beach and rocks start…My mother lives in J-Bay and Paradise Beach is more seen as a suburb!…For those who have not seen or surfed Bruce’s Beauty’s you have yet to expierence something amazing..put it on your bucket list!
@BOG. Yes Olivier = Super. I am not certain what Kovsies cover via distance learning, but I can assure you what they offer is excellent. And I am sure that since universities are businesses, they will at some point offer almost the entire range of courses via distance learning. Tuks is going the same way. Not US and UCT though. At Tuks you can for instance attend your classes at night via DSTV Commercial Channels, live!!! At Kovsies you can enter a chatroom with your fellow students, ask the lecturer questions etc. I assure you that no quality pertaining to klasloop is lost. She cannot go wrong with Monash though. Wiskundige Geletterheid isnot Somme, its pappagaaiwerk bs met die lepel gevoer.
@Deon: I dont stay in bed when Im awake. When I was still “mooi, jonk en jukkerig”, it was a different matter, maar nou is ek nog net mooi. So, its senseless just lying in bed and staring at the ceiling. I was not aware that Kovsies offers distance learning. My daughter will be teaching English in the far East in a few yrs time and while she is busy with that, she hopes to do her post grad studies. She was thinking of Monash (The Ozzie University), but now you mention that Kovsies offers an alternative. Do they cover the full spectrum or just law ? Yes, I remember years ago, how some law students actually changed from US to UCT, following lecturers with with high academic reputations. If I remember correctly, Olivier was the best known- law lecturer and author . Wiskunde Geletterdheid = Somme
@BOG. Morning. Are you not supposed to rest at 02h30? Kovsies to me especially the Law Faculty, is special. And yes I am aware of the GCB/Kovsies tie. It is similar to the US/PRG, Affies/Tuks, SACS/UCT connection. 62 Ha for any school is huge, more so a city school. I was not aware of this. How do you use it? Sadly, I have to share your sentiment regarding declining standards in SA. I employ primarily “professional” people, meaning they at least have to obtain a tertiary qualification. Therefore, I have to deal with the decline in educational standards in SA almost every day. I attempted to wish this to “just go away”, and denied this in front of my siblings now residing in the USA etc. But I was finally beaten and convinced we are heading for a mess. The standard of the secondary and tertiary education of my personnel is declining, and I have to address this at my own cost and on my own time. Young people simply spell worse every year.The mathematics, especially this Wiskundige Geletterdheid sucks. It is worthless. Have you ever seen one of the Wiskundige Geletterdheid matric papers? When my manager handed me one I at first thought it was a Leon Schuster prank, and started searching for hidden cameras etc. And it is not just me growing older. They just do not receive the tuition at the average school any longer. People from the so-called “big/top schools” simply have a better school educational background. At tertiary level, Unitra specifically is taking a nose-dive. Five years ago it was much better, fifteen years ago it was as good as any. Yes, they have a practical advantage over graduates from residential universities, but that lasts only for a year. And if I look at the administrational problems. Incredible! I can write 10 pages on that. So, I am afraid my kids will end up in hostel, Paul Roos and Bloemhof/Rhenish. What else can I do? After that, its up to them. Fortunately both Tuks and Kovsies, at some faculties, like Law and Accountancy, provide excellent distance learning. Kovsies’ Law distance learning for one is just brilliant.
@Deon: @Djou: Polla Perlemoen? Strange that you both should be so complimentary of Kovsies, so I need to remind you of its origins. If I remember correctly, the ground was donated by Grey in 1904 and started as the Grey Universiteitskollege. Am I correct? Today, GCB still has 62 hectares of school ground in a city, which is huge for a city school by any standard and Kovsies covers a large area as well. But sadly, like all the other institutions, we are seeing serious problems emerging- declining standards just being one of them.I have heard a lot of the new compulsory “orientation” module- some would say political indoctrination.But the standards seem to vary from faculty to faculty. My nephew (from the EC), a few years back, before choosing a university for his medical studies, had a choice of UCT, US, Kovsies and Tuks and after extensive research, decided on the latter.( I have not included Unitra and heaven forbid, Cuba) And he was “lucky” too- sent to Grootte Schuur to do his 2 yrs of “community service”
@BoishaaiPa: Is the rumour about your appointment true?
Hi Djou, quite jealous of the Oxford experience. Kovsies is an exceptional institution. However I see myself as a Tukkie, and least of all a Matie. But I prefer the Matie rugby jersey!
@Deon: Thought you had something civilised in you – thanks to the days you studied at Kovsies. My parents wanted me to attend Tuks or the old RAU, but my answer was that I wanted to study for my degree and not for it to be handed out to me on a plate – hence I ended up at Kovsies and finishing at Oxford. Must say, Kovsies was more difficult.
@BOG. I did not see your post earlier-apologies. In 1995 I “converted” my degree, before moving on to Tuks, Pukke and finally Kovsies to continue my studies. Formal employment per contract commenced on 1 May 1996 (a public holiday, this caused some admin issues, and I will never forget the date!) So, my physical presence in Stellenbosch was only required a few times in 1995. I decided to spend this time soul searching in the Wild Coast. Today they call it a gap year. I ended up drinking and smoking some bushes occurring in the area, and working for the late Polla Fourie, 1970’s Springbok. I did pass though. So I was a beach bum yes, and proud of it, but a beach bum with a purpose though. A 1000 pound GWS is considered juvenile. Of course I met Gaitsigubeb (not certain about the spelling).
@meadows: Its definitely not KZN for the sharkiest waters. Durban last had a fatal attck in about 1960. Toti saw a few in the 70’s and is, for me, still scary. Had 2 Zambies and a Tiger swim through the lifesaving competition arena 2 years back. I never have a second thought swimming a long way out in Durbs, I never fail to have a second thought when walking out on the ice in Cape Town …
8)
There is clearly no SB rugby to debate if we are now arguing about which area of the country has the scariest (sharkiest?) waters
Our coastline is full of them – Great white, Zambezi, Raggie – and – a bit like a bullet – you are not going to see the one that nails you.
and that’s how you bat, ones and two’s at a time, to bring a 200 up
@Grasshopper: Line
@Grasshopper: Hook
@Ploegskaar: 6foot3 and 103kg is the same size as Jean De Villiers, you calling him fat? Jeez, boet you have no clue…
@Ploegskaar: Carmel College is in Glenwood you numb nuts!
@Grasshopper: “Someone mentioned Carmel College”…… and then you find a way talk about Glenwood! Doubt you can catch a knop without bringing GW into the situation. Genugtig!
@BOG: Uhm, ok?
@Grasshopper: Watch out? Good Lord Chubby, would be difficult to miss you. You must look like a beached Orca when you come in?
Someone mentioned Carmel College, that was a mostly Jewish school up next to Holy Family College near UKZN. A good little school but the Crawford machine pulled in and bought it out. A few kids from Carmel who wanted to play rugby used to play for Glenwood as they didn’t offer much sport, bar basketball and tennis…..never knew Shaun Thomson went there, seems in the 70’s the Glenwood area dominated SA surfing with George and Shaun.
@Deon: I’m no fisherman but thanks for that info
@Roger: Wells…
For the older surfers out there, George Thompoulos (4 x SA Champ) in the red jacket on the right; http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomopouli/2808579476/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomopouli/2807729291/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74012065@N03/8744227882/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomopouli/2805990654/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74012065@N03/9299789695/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomopouli/2807727261/
Grasshopper,thank you for the education. Now for some more education: the Natal sardine run is on average 0,03% (a tiny tiny little bit) of the Cape Shoal directed pilchard that breaks away, swim up North, and in search of richer, colder water with more oxygen get washed up on shore. Ever wondered why 100% of the permanent fishing fleets (the PE one being regarded as not permanent) catching small pelagic species like pilchard and anchovy are situated in the Western Cape, and 100% of the commercial scale pilchard canneries are situated in the Western Cape, and 100% of all Great White Shark Diving/Viewing rights are issued by Marine an Coastal Management to entities in the Western Cape? Because we have a constant sardine run and Great White run.
@BOG: jeeesh – that’s fighting talk
@Grasshopper: who are you in laws? Surname will suffice?
Angola, watch and weep if you like lefts; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni_xEeAAle0
@Deon: Yep, there are some serious White’s in the Cape waters, I give you that but try a surf when the Sardine run is going, no bigger danger. Anyway, the ‘South Coast’ for the uneducated is the strip of coast between the Bluff and Port Edward, very similar to the Garden Route but warmer water. Some of the breaks there are amazing, TO Strand, Hibberdene etc. If you looking for a left try Angola’s beaches…..OMG! Jason Ribbink has a few stories to tell about big wave riding. My in-laws stay in St Francis Bay so I am lucky to surf there every now and again, amazing too. Noordhoek, last weekend was cooking……heavy right barrels…
Roger. Port St. Johns turned into Port St Slons. Its a mess compared to what it used to be in its(my?) heyday. Still worth visiting though. One gets Great Whites almost everywhere due to their ability to adjust to water temperatures. We even encountered one as far North as Pandane, Moz in the 90’s. But, they need to eat, and fish mostly do not suffice, its simply not enough. They need seals to survive, therefore, they remain mostly close to seal colonies, and mostly visit the Eastern Cape/Natal/Tropics while migrating between “restaurants”.
@Ploegskaar: Yes boet, a 6foot3 103kg Michelin man, watch out for him. As for chatting at backline, I leave that to the grommets, too busy trying to see the sets come in without my contacts……
@Deon: We were talking earlier of beach bums. Any person who spends 11 months on the Wild Coast, is either super rich or a beach bum. Which is it? Certainly not work. The shark which you refer to, was actually caught off Kwelegha point, just around the corner from Glenn Garriff, where there were a few fatal attacks on surfers, all suspected Great Whites. I believe at Port St Johns too (Did you meet the man, Ben Dekker ?) That shark weighed over a thousand pounds, but it was cut into 8 pieces because they did not have a large enough scale. So, there was substantial weight loss through bleeding.@Roger: I regard Cape St Francis as a suburb of J-Bay
@Deon: how is Port St Johns these days-usually give it a wide berth on the way to Umgazi
btw – the Great White who took that diver at J Bay recently was 5 meters plus
@meadows: Southbroom had/has a pretty decent break back in the day – eben us Vaalies thought it was better than the “Valley of the Waves”!
@BOG. I also believe the waves at Nahoon to be the biggest consistent wave. They really are beautiful, and I love the Eastern cape Coast. I lived in Coffee Bay for nine months in 1995 and in Port St. Johns for two months. Your believe re the Great White Sharks migratory pattern however is nothing more than a local myth, and science says otherwise. In fact, the Great White Sharks encountered in the Eastern Cape are on average smaller than those in the Cape and Natal. There are in general more Great White sharks in the Eatern Cape than in Natal though, but they are smaller in the Eastern Cape, like that juvenile minnow your uncle or someone caught with the rod and line.
@BOG: followed by Cape St Francis – especially when the Westerly is howling – which is often!
@Grasshopper:
Just to show that Ireland doe get some serious surf;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzY9jbaBM5M
@BOG: By the way……………Beet banned me for 4 months…………………..my ban expired at 16h00 today
@BOG: The annual Pniel competition was cancelled this year. Lack of sponsors………………I proved that thing of ‘one size fits all’ is sommer a lot of bog
@Speartackle: Early release on parole for Christmas, I see? Im sure that we can expect a “mine is bigger” contribution from you?@Ploegskaar: When the Kwa Zuluians speak of the South Coast they speak of Toti (higher) to Port Edward (Lower)
@Grasshopper:
In my experience at most breaks around the world when it gets to around 10′ there is very little localism in the water. Usually the so called “heavy” locals are sitting on the beach watching. I include Cave Rock, one of my favorite breaks in that category.
The Bay of Plenty guys like Shaun Tomson never got flack surfing big Cave Rock. He got a lot of flack at the Wedge – Mike Esposito’s home break – purely because of perceived favoritism in SA surfing at the time.
The exception is the North shore or the West side of Oahu where, at any size, if you didn’t have a “black short Hui” mate to speak up for you a local character like Johnny Boy Gomes would rip the fins out of your board for the hell of it and tell you to paddle in.
If memory serves back in the early 80’s a North shore local named Fast Eddie Rothman stuck Shaun into the back of his van with his two huge Rottweilers and drove him around for a while.
The biggest waves I’ve ever seen were in the early sixties………………Grey scholars’ hairstyles.
Jeepers brother………….. M Bay is like Saigon compared to the Karoo
So, now we are at the “mine is bigger than yours” stage? I have covered the coast from Elandsbaai to Northern Mozambique, and not necessary as a surfer and the consistently largest waves are not on the west coast or the North Coast, but Nahoon Reef, which incidentally, hosted the first Gunston 500 back in the 70s. Second is J-Bay. But I say this as an honest independent FS observer. The Great Whites spend their youth in Cape Town, but as soon as they leave home, they move up the coast to the EC
@Deon: Yes, strictly speaking SC would be Augulhas and onwards, Overstrand Pringle’s (maybe Rooi Els?) to Pearly Beach.
Speartackle, I think the Karoo is a wetland forest compared to the West Coast. Mosselbay is also referred to as the Karoo by the sea since it has mostly Karoo weather.
No brother…………………..the West Coast is commonly known as ‘Karoo by the sea”
@meadows: That alone should prove that they are the best school in D’urban, leading -wood in a manner of speaking.
@Ploeg. Ja, I have been trying to determine where this South Coast is to which the Natalians refer. We certainly do not refer to the Garden Route as our North Coast, nor do we refer to the relevant section of the West Coast as our North Coast, otherwise we would have had two North Coasts. I reside mostly in Hermanus, and do not even see this as South Coast. This would be Overstrand, Cape Agulhas would be South Coast, and above that would be Southern Cape Coast and Garden Route.
What’s wrong with poaching? Give them opportunities……………………..teach them cricket…………………maybe one day we’ll have a top order who can play spin
@Gungets Tuft: GT – don’t be shy – share with all of us
@Ploegskaar:
Twiggy Baker went to Beachwood, a school in Durban North that merged with Northlands to form Northwood – probably in the 80’s.
@Grasshopper:
On the subject of defunct Durban schools – I suspect that Jordy would have gone to Mansfield where his old man and uncles went if it were still around when he went to school.
@Grasshopper: The only South Coast is the Overberg and Garden Route, spots like Betty’s, Sandbaai, Bayview, Outers, Jongens, Vic Bay. Great waves, but not much kakking going on…..
Did you paddle out with a 6mm and hoodie down here? I can just imagine the Michelin Man with verbal diarrhea spoiling everyone’s surf. Next time try a 4:3, should keep you warm enough and if we meet in the water I really hope your hoody twists the wrong way around to muffle your motormouth, nothing worse than a chatterbox in quality surf.
Grasshopper, Cape Town is the uncontested Great White Shark hotspot of the planet. Even the zambezi/bull sharks grow much bigger here. Google this if you do not believe me. I hate it when they call them bull sharks, anything called “bull” is just bulls…t. Try Dungeons/Tafelberg reefs for sheer size, combined with Great Whites and cold, not sissies, and I guess then I am a sissy.
@Ploegskaar: Ya Ploeg, try any South Coast break, you Cappies will kak yourself, especially in Toti. Only issue here in the Cape is cold and all you okes use 6 to 8mm wetsuits and hoodies, bloody sissies….try surf Ireland, Bundoran now that is proper cold!
@Ploegskaar:
100% on Twiggy – i’m not sure where he went to school but he is a Durban boy.
Gavin was up at Elands with some mates of mine recently – still trying to hustle every wave.
Looking at the headline of this article, what would be the quantitative and qualitative definition of poaching? Can we ever stop a boy from attending a school of his choice, constitutionally spoken? I do not think so. So, if you cannot beat them, join them. Perhaps the way in which a school approaches a sbr player can be addressed? I simply do not have an answer, and the absence of a single definition of poaching does not help.
@Grasshopper: Ja jong, one thing we have learned over the years is that everything is more and bigger up in KZN and none more so than your bek.
@Gungets Tuft: Shot, thanks GT
@meadows: Spot on! I was originally a Bluff Boy surfing Garvey’s, Cave and Brighton, a seriously hard core bunch of locals those guys. Don’t even try surfing Garvey’s without permission. Anybody who knows the Bluff knows they only make them rough and tough from the Bluff. But by going to Glenwood I soon became a Town Clown as all my mates surfed town. Plenty of ‘heavy-ou’s’ there too, although I think for pure scariness the Bluff guys take the cake. Skye Robinson and those guys were ex cons. I still remember huge ‘paras’ on the night buses with Queensburgh (Burra Boys) and any clown who thought they could ‘charf’ a Bluff chick. Shayne Thorne and many others……the names go on and on. In terms of world class surfers there were many who almost made it, if only the Gov gave them funding or Quicksilver/Billabong/Stussy/Reef etc sponsored them. Guys like Clive & Paul Daniels, Luke Budd, Dean ‘the bean’ Geraghty, Rudy Palmboom etc. In the 80’s Glenwood had BJ Campbell, also in the 60’s we had G. Thomopoulos. We could also claim both Travis and Dane Logie as they were at Glenwood for a while, only left because DHS offered colours for surfing and Glenwood didn’t. In terms of bodyboarding, well again the list is huge….Mike Van Huysteen from the Bluff was one of the old legends. The Cockwell twins went to Glenwood, as did Leopard (Gareth Harvey), Wayne Du Preez and more recently Jarred Engelbrecht etc. There were also alot of guys who never did comps who were better than those chosen for KZN and SA….hardcore guys who only surfed Cave Rock at 6feet plus…..heaviest break I have ever surfed and I have surfed Crayfish Factory at 10 feet……great days….
@meadows: Gavin Rudolph still rules the line-up at Melkbos and a couple of spots up the Weskus (where real men surf real waves) on heavy days, fitter than most of the laaities half his age. By the way, where did Twiggy Baker go to school, he is certainly worth claiming, as opposed to most of the pier-jumping, lukewarm dribble surfing fancy boys from Snarf City.
@Gungets Tuft: Agreed, very fat elephants!
@Grasshopper: But there are a few elephants in the room that he has managed to ignore as well?
@Playa: You will have mail from me in about an hour. All is not as it seems …
@Djou: Me thinks that this issue is much dirtier than meets the eye. I also get the feeling that in as much as we talk and complain about it, charter or no charter, this will never end, and will continue till Kingdom come.
I couldn’t stop my jaw from hitting the ground the other reading an article on how far this poaching matter has spiralled in New Zealand. let us brace ourselves for a totally different schoolboy rugby landscape.
@Djou: Interesting article, glad to see Kershaw is being honest and open. Glenwood does recruit at a junior level just like every other school and sometimes to a lesser degree. Glenwood gives out about 40 bursaries and scholarships a year to grade 7’s, two thirds of which are probably for sport and not all are 100%…
@ BOG. Vehicles are only banned from driving on the beaches, not from to the beaches. I am about to google LM Radio. While it disappeared when I was still too young to care, and was replaced in a way by Springbok Radio, I have heard so much about it from my (much) older siblings etc.
Also funny that the Sharks are shifting the blame on to the schools?
Gavin Melvill, chairman of the Sharks youth rugby management committee, said the club did not poach rugby players. “Most of the top schools around the country are poaching each other’s players,”
And the Bulls are now a club, according to the journalist! Maybe not far from wrong
“Xander Janse van Rensburg, the Blue Bulls’ high performance manager, said the club believed in giving talented players an opportunity to develop.”
Herewith the full article. A bit funny that a businessman wanted to put a kid in Pretoria and the kid chose Menlo Park. Surely Affies and Waterkloof would have been first on the boy’s list???
How money moves rugby schoolboys!
Principals meet to sign anti-poaching document
WEALTHY schools and rugby unions are poaching top black rugby players from schools across South Africa and offering them free tuition, accommodation and air tickets. The poaching has prompted 24 state boys’ schools to formulate a sports charter to ban the practice. The schools are expected to sign the document early next year. The principals of four top rugby-playing schools in East London recently penned a document outlining their frustration at losing talented players to schools in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng. The Sunday Times has established that 37 pupils were poached in recent years from five schools in the Eastern Cape and Boland. Those that lost players this year included: Eight pupils from Hoërskool Menlopark in Pretoria moved to Hoërskool Garsfontein; Aston Fortuin left Queens College in Queenstown to join Southdowns College in Irene;
Xolisa Guma opted to move from Hoërskool Swartland in Malmesbury to Maritzburg College in Pietermaritzburg after considering an offer from the Blue Bulls to move to Pretoria; Somila Jho left Dale College in King William’s Town for Kingswood College in Grahamstown; and Andell Loubser left Drostdy Technical High School in Worcester to join Hoërskool Menlopark in August. Hudson Park High School principal Roy Hewett said pupils were approached in “a clandestine way” either at or after the tournament for South Africa’s top under-16 school rugby players, the Grant Khomo Week. “They are made financial offers which include free schooling and clothing. It [poaching] inculcates the wrong values in impressionable youngsters who haven’t reached maturity.”
Queen’s College principal Brendan Grant said it could only be through “trickery” that a “Queenian” would leave the school before completing matric. Dale College principal Mike Eddy said Jho, a first team rugby player, left the school two days before the start of his grade 11 final exams. “I . . . know that there must be some sort of carrot dangled,” he said. The principal of Hoërskool Swartland, Dirk Marais, described Guma as the under-16 team’s star winger. He said the pupil was in tears this week when he called him to say he was unhappy at Maritzburg College and was missing Swartland. Guma confirmed that he was not paying any tuition or boarding fees, an annual amount of nearly R70 000. He said the Blue Bulls had offered him pocket money of R1 000 a month. He has been at his new school for five weeks. “There are plans to fly me to Cape Town twice every term from next year to see my parents.” He said Maritzburg College was “a very good school. There’s a good coach taking care of me. But I feel like I back-stabbed the people who were always there for me.” Kingswood College head Jon Trafford said in a statement that Jho’s family had decided to move him to the school. “It would be fair to say we do, like every good school, endeavour to attract talented pupils to the college when they show interest, but we do not tout for talent.” Dean van der Watt, academic head for rugby at Hoërskool Menlopark, denied that the school had poached Loubser. “A businessman wanted to put Andell in Pretoria and he chose to come to Menlopark,” he said. Vernon Rorich, principal of Southdowns College, said the Blue Bulls rugby union gave players’ names to the school. “We then accommodate them, we educate them and hand them back to the Bulls. Obviously, we use them in our sports side.” He said Fortuin had been appointed head boy of the school for next year. King Edward VII principal David Lovatt said his school did not go “shopping” for rugby players, but Glenwood High School’s principal, Trevor Kershaw, confirmed that his school actively recruited players. However, he said it tried to sign up younger boys to develop. Ten boys from Gauteng, the Western Cape and the Eastern Cape, whom he described as “special talents”, will be attending the school next year. “Some are full payers, some part-payers and some full bursary,” he said. Gavin Melvill, chairman of the Sharks youth rugby management committee, said the club did not poach rugby players. “Most of the top schools around the country are poaching each other’s players,” he said. Xander Janse van Rensburg, the Blue Bulls’ high performance manager, said the club believed in giving talented players an opportunity to develop. “I don’t see it as poaching. If we identify a talented player and we feel it’s viable for him to move, we will move him.”
@Grasshopper:
You are right about the close knit bonds that form around surfing groups. Perhaps it has something to do with the territorial or localism aspect that applies to beaches all over the world from the West side or North shore of Oahu, to Maroubra, Sydney and places like Cave Rock and J Bay closer to home. You would be foolish, as an outsider, to venture out at a break like Makaha on the West side of Oahu without the sanction of the local hui , or gang.
It is great to see how well Jordy Smith is doing on the ASP tour and you Glenwood guys can be justifiably proud of him although I agree with some of the comments here that his surfing success had little to do with where he went to school and in his case far more to do with the influence of his father who has spent a lifetime in the surfing industry.
Unfortunately our performance internationally has been decidedly average, after the heady days of the late 70’s and 80’s, until Jordy came along.
We have produced two World Champions since the advent of the pro circuit in 1976. Shaun Tomson won in 1977 and Martin Potter in 1989. Shaun went to Carmel College (along with his cousin Michael who was also regularly in the top 10 of the world rankings back then – I’m not even sure if the school still exists) and Martin Potter went to George Campbell. Over that period SA had any number of surfers who featured regularly in the world rankings. Cape Town’s Jonathon Paarman and, Durban’s Mike Esposito and Paul Naude, and later in the 80s guys like Mike Burness.
Arguably our first “World Champion” was Gavin Rudolph, from PE, who won the Smirnoff Competition at Sunset Beach on the North Shore of Oahu in 1971 when that competition was considered the “unofficial” world championship in the days before the world tour began. Incidentally Gavin was still finishing in the Top 20 of the inaugural pro tour in the late 70’s along with both Tomsons and Jonny Paarman. Most of these guys are still surfing well into their late 50s and if you will regularly see Gavin Rudolph (who I think turned 60 last year) in the water at some of the Cape Peninsula’s heavier spots.
@BoishaaiPa: With vehicles being banned from the beaches, does it really matter where it is used? Naval Hill or Leeukop?@beet: Im in a state of transition. Even when I was a beach bum many years ago, I still had the misplaced confidence to think of myself as a beach boy- much like a cat looking into a mirror and seeing a lion . Today, its all a distant memory and sadly, the BO stands for “Baie Oud”. Oh, and while Im not in Bloem, I believe that the song “Wild thing” by “The Troggs” have just hit no1 spot on the Bloem hit parade. So, let me stream “LM Radio” to catch up on some real music. PS Im serious about LM Radio. It has been revived and they play all the oldies from Maputo. Google it. You can even listen to the old recorded jingles- very nostalgic.
Ha beet, I would say Baywatch Old GrAy. He doesn’t strike me as the kind who really “gotta lot”, just a watcher, a Babe Watcher, not getter!
@BoishaaiPa: @Deon: Does this mean the “B” in BOG stands for beach
Maybe
Beachbum Old Grey or Beachboy Old Grey or Baywatch Old Grey or Bondi Old Grey or Big-Barrel-rider Old Grey or Bloemfontein-by-die-see Old Grey
Infinite options really
@BoishaaiPa. One first hears these infamous BBB’s (Bloem Beach BOGgies) approach with all the Beach Boy hits being played out loud for everyone to hear, enhancing the surfer image. Then again, these hit singles are only now released in Bloem after the local censors have joined the magistrates striking.
@Deon: Peculiar thing that I noticed in Bloem over the last couple of years is the amount of “Beach Buggies” roaming the streets as well!
@BOG. I think the surfer image did help with the girls, especially the ones from Bloem not familiar with the sport. Attending classes was certainly a bad alternative to spending time at the ocean. After a few interschools between PRG and GCB I noticed a lot of cars with permanently fixed surfboards at Loch Logan in Bloem. Even at Naval Hill. Perhaps the Vrystaters expected some sort of ocean at a place called Naval Hill. The surfing at PRG was definitely not of the highest level, but one of the wonderful things about surfing is that levels are not really that important. Standing on the board is an important aspect of surfing, but then again, surfing is a vertical expression of a horizontal intention.
@Deon: You are in effect saying that the level of surfing at PRG is just sufficient enough to offer the participant an alternative to attending classes when he gets to US, ie an excursion to Hangklip , Koelbaai or Elandsbaai. And of course, a surf bord on the roof of a car always looks impressive even if the girl being pursued, only finds out later that he cannot even stand on the thing. Thankfully, the Grey boys relied 100% on their looks and charming personalities for these occasions.
@Grasshopper: only because there is safety in numbers. When old Johnny swims past it’s best to have someone slower than you. We particularly like front rankers for their high levels of adipose tissue: it both slows them down and makes them more “attractive”, in a chumming sort of way
@Deon: very good points Deon! I do find the surfing crew the most closely knit after school. It’s been 17 years since I matriculated and all the surfers and bodyboarders are still close mates, socializing with their wives and kids. The rugby players on the other hand have not really kept in touch, only a few pockets of players. The ocean obviously has a powerful ‘brotherhood’ affect :-)
@Grasshopper, perhaps you should rather say you are Jacks of all trades, and masters of some, rather than none. I regard it as proper to discuss all sport on this forum, especially during the SBR off-season, as sport is a common link we all share, and something which MOSTLY unite us at national/international/provincial or other level. The athletes I admire most, and the sport I PERSONALLY regard as the epitome of mental and physical achievement, is surfing. Surfing (plus scuba and apnea diving) is very popular in PRG, and at school level, we used to compete often (also at apnea!). We did not produce a Jordy though, but most of us, 25 years after leaving school, still venture out to sea over some weekends, with the families on the beach sometimes, although now on longboards or bodyboards. Over the years the old boys of PRG, Paarl BHS,Paarl Gym, BL etc who participate in these sports, have blended into a single brotherhood, although schoolboy rugby and one’s school’s achievements are still popular subjects of discussion, even behind the waves. The camaraderie between the Boland schools’ old boys after school, which I assume also exist between between old boys of different “top” rugby schools in all other provinces, is amazing. This camaraderie is definitely not confined to provincial status though, and at e.g. University Stellenbosch, great friendships and healthy competitive relationships exist between old boys of say PRG and GCB, based on or at least initiated by the common denominator, schoolboy rugby. To me, this camaraderie is one of SBR’s greatest products.
@Gungets Tuft: pretty impressive GT
Jordaan and the Westville troop should get together, attack Grassy time….love it, hook, line and sinker….I think Westville have beaten Glenwood only once in tennis since 2000 when our top 3 seeds were away.
@BuiteBreek: En Oakdale se bydrae? Ek het dit bloot as n feit genoem en die meeste van hulle was uit n ander era. En daar is veel meer prestasies as dit, terloops. Bv, die lys van int. rugbyspelers is n bietjie lank om hier te noem
@Grasshopper:
I know of Scott Schaefer yes and Troy Pearsal .. cause Troy played at Westville Country Club. as his club and beat him many a time and he used to cry each time with his mom always watching every point..i remember!!
@Grasshopper: Maybe rather refrain from commenting on tennis if it was before your time. As Star indicated Westville absolutely dominated KZN and national tennis in the ’80s. I don’t remember Glenwood ever being a dominant force in tennis up until the late nineties. Never heard of any of those players you mentioned, were any of them ever ATP ranked i.e. Rob Koenig, Royce Deppe??
I can’t understand why you continue to play so heavily on the whole Jordy Smith story and on previous blogs did such a dis-service by comparing it to the Westville swimming program and the achievements of Chad Le Clos. Le Clos went to Westville because of their strong swimming ethos and top program, not because of money or coaches. Jordy Smith didn’t go to Glenwood to surf, the reality is he could have attended any school close to the beach, but it just happened to be Glenwood.
How many Springbok rugby players have you produced in the last 25 years compared to other KZN schools?? I know you like to fuel the flames on this blog, but, sometimes maybe think before typing on your “green” keyboard, as your comments tend to really get under people’s skins at times.
@GT, not sure about the time frame actually. Star, Chad is actually a Pinetown Old Boy as you know, anybody else? Thanks Meadows, must be all the fresh air.
@meadows: Likewise, I think the rating of the last few years tends to ignore consistency over time (y’know, like a fine vintage Scotch), but ..
Hockey
Sean Jackson – captain of South African national hockey team
Steven Evans – captain of South African national indoor hockey team
D Gallagher 2008 Olympics
IL Evans 2004 Olympics
C van der Merwe
GD Carr
TA Hammond 2008 Olympics
GG Abbott 2008 Olympics
WR Paton 2012 Olympics
MS Harper 2008 and 2012 Olympics
TM Paton 2012 Olympics
S Davenhill
M Guise-Brown
GN Glutz
Rugby
PJ Dixon
AD James
PJ Grant
C Burden (uncapped)
For England: GN Appleford
For United States: JK Grobler, CE Erskine
For Italy: WA Visser
Baby Boks – Stefan Ungerer, Jesse Kriel
Craig Joubert – Referee
Cricket
JN Rhodes
DA Miller
KP Pietersen for England
Polo
Stewart Erskine captain of South African national polo team
Byron Watson (Grade 11) – SA Polo team (Current)
Others – cannot recall the names right now, know that Byron Watsons dad was captain for a long time, possibly into the 2000’s
Canoeing
A Birkett
J Graham
AG Stott
L Jenkins
D Wewege (All Africa games Gold)
Brandon Orpwood (current Gr 12 – Age group white water)
Rowing – Don Cech – Bronze medal, 2004 Summer Olympics.
Swimming
Brendon Dedekind – Silver in the 50m Free and 50m Breastroke at the 2000 Fina World Champs, 2000 Olympics
Darian Roy Townsend ( 2004 Olympic Gold)
Other
Craig Egberink, winner of the 2011 Mongol Derby
Chris Frost, winner of the 2010 Cape to Rio Yacht Race
@HM: I’m not sure that I agree that the last 10 years have more relevance. IMO opinion it could be seen as a temporary aberration either way.
But for what it’s worth MHS have produced the following South African internationals capped in that period;
Springbok rugby – 2
Springbok 7’s rugby – 1
SA Hockey – 2
Canoeing – 3 (2 for SA & 1 for Australia)
Polo – 1
Shooting – 1
Triathletes – 4
On the rugby front 12 OB’s have played Currie cup/Super Rugby in that period.
4 have played for SA U20
@Roger: What they did not mention is that they use kids who sweat a lot and who have weak bladders, to ensure the required acidity of the wine@Deon: That explains Paarlboks comments here occasionally.
@BoishaaiPa.I am familiar with Druiwetrap; grew up with it being an event at festivities etc., but no, I was not aware of the event at Paarl Interschools. I did not realise Paarl Gim is also partly a girl school though? I played sport against Gim for the greater part of my school career, and was convinced that Paarl merely had a large contingent of Scots and roughly half the guys at Paarl Gim were wearing kilts? Are you sure dem guys are gals?
@BoishaaiPa: interesting – no wonder after a night of drinking the “finest” red wine you feel like you have been kicked in the head by a mule the next morning……
@BOG: Ek sal darem nie te veel noem dat GCB die meeste ODI spelers opgelwer het nie. Veral nie as mens in ag neem die blywende indruk van hulle is ‘n spul chokers wat nie kan produce as dit saak maak nie.
@Roger: How do you think that wine was made in the olden days before juice extractors etc?..The farm workers stomped on those grapes for hours with bare feet to extract the juice!..They still use that method in France on many old wine farms…Did you think that those old Frenchmen in the Bordeaux area all wear purple socks as a fashion statement..that is just the winestains from years of wine stomping!
@Tjoppa: We will probably beat most schools at growing Dagga, serious Durban poison in the Glenwood area…
@Tjoppa: Surfing and bodyboarding. Also Baseball, not many schools will touch us at that. We are jack of all trades master on none…
@BoishaaiPa: and people then drink that wine
@Roger: Nope..Druiwetrap is an endurance sport!…You have teams of 4 or 6 and and the grapes are put in a Vat and you “trap laat die sop spat” toe see which team can produce the most juice over a couple of hours of “Druiwetrap”..that juice is then used to make wine!…a top “Druiwetrapper” usually has big feet with well developed calves for longevity..weight is important too but not too much!
@BoishaaiPa: wtf is druiwetrap? Spitting grape pips?
@Grasshopper: So what we determined at this Blog is that Glenwood sucks at rugby and tennis. I mean the bastards whipped you on the tennis court also.
In what sport do you guys perform at such a level to be seen as one of the leading schools in South Africa currently?
@Grasshopper: I would say Frew McMillan and Bob Hewitt would be ahead of Kevin Anderson. Bob Hewitt won the grandslam in doubles and McMillan was his partner for most of his career. This was in a time when doubles was more popular than singles – anyway, Hewitt is an Aussie and assumed SA citizenship later – given the sexual abuse allegations leveled against him Aus can have him
@HM: give me some dates. How about since 2000, or is 2003 on your mind?
Will get something out a bit later, earning a crust right now
@Deon: On this subject I have to point out that the Paarl schools have a unique event at Interschools called “Druiwetrap”…I dont think many schools participate in this event and that current holder (I think it is Paarl Gym..they used their fat girls this time around and we dont have any of those)…should be seen as the SA School Champs!
@Bog. GCB’s achievements continues to BOGgle the mind. I think we did have a scholar just after I left who was a Sheep Dog Trial champion. Don’t forget Kepler’s boxing achievements.
@Meadows and GT, everybody mention all time records etc. but for some it’s just the last ten seasons or so that count. Would you by any chance have access to information that will tell us who produced international sportsmen in the last ten years i.e. Since schools became more professional towards their input into sports. Wil be interesting to compare schools on the basis of input vs. output.
http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/glenwood-tennis-stars
http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/tennis-star-making
Tennis in 2013
vs Clifton won 9-0
vs Clifton won 5-4
vs College won 9-0
vs Parktown won 9-0
vs Hilton won 9-0
vs Michaelhouse won 11-1
vs Affies lost 4-5
vs Grey Bloem lost 2-7
There are more results just can’t find them all, the team is young this year but watch them in a year or more..
vs Stellenbosch won 17-4
vs Parktown won 18-1
vs HTS Middelburg won 17-2
vs St Benedicts lost 1-5
@star:
don’t mind me…I was just looking for some KZN handbags to brighten my day 
@Roger: Agreed, with Kevin Anderson now in 4th….
@Grasshopper: Curren had 5 single titles (no grandslams) and 26 doubles titles (4 grandslams).
However, if you had to rate SA’s best tennis players of the last 40 years it would be:
Curren (career high of 5)
Ferreira (career high of 6)
Kriek (carrer high of 7)
@star: KES claim Wayne Ferreira – he attended KES in grade 8 and 9 and went to Parktown in grade 10 and thereafter dropped out of school to pursue a professional tennis career.
Get this – he left KES because he couldn’t make the 1st tennis team. However, truth is, he wiped the floor with the KES number 1 player in GRAFE 8 but the powers that be felt he was too young to play in the 1st side
Great talent spotting there
@Playa: @star: Johan Kriek (the pride of Pongola) won the Aussie Open back-to-back in 1981 and 82, reached the semi finals of the French Open in ’86 and the US Open in ’80 and the quarter finals of Wimbledon in ’81 and ’82 – 14 career singles titles and 8 doubles titles. Career high ranking of 7. Curren had a career high of 5 and won 4 Grandslam double titles but no singles titles.
Kriek went to Affies
http://www.schoolsportsnews.co.za/other-sports/wayne-ferreira-tennis-challenge/
These are recent but Glenwood have excelled at this for years now, since the mid 90’s..
http://www.saschoolsports.co.za/tennis/kzn/tennis-glenwood-and-stellenbosch-share-the-spoils.html
@ Playa- remember that one swallow does not make a Summer. That is why I also referred to the number of ATP ranked players. In the tournament that Dean refers to were GW there and where did they come . (Also have they ever won it.) If they are considered national champions for more than a few years, I am will happily rescind the journeymen label.
You must also remember that Grassy is all to quick to down grade our swimmers( and any other sport that Westville excels at). I remember when the cricket rankings first came out and Westville was ranked number 1 , Grassy was the first to attack them and when we convincing beat GW in a 20 20 match ( en route to the finals) he was first to downgrade the 20 20 format( although he was definitely following the match on twitter). All a bit of fun really but good to get the green juices flowing 
@star: Hehehehe
….just as checking. Bear in mind though that’s as many grand slam winners as Glenwood – who you label as journeymen has (Kevin Curren – 4 doubles grand slam wins, and singles runner up in 2, one of which was the 1985 Wimbledon final vs Boris Becker )… that is what might come back to bite you once Grassy starts reading up 
That’s my effort at sh1t stirring
@ Playa- I sure that Ellis Ferreria alone has won the doubles at the Australian Open and I think another at the US Open. Do they not count as being a ” Grand Slam Winner”
@star: I hope you thoroughly researched what a “Grand Slam Winner” is in tennis circles before you posted that…it may come back to bite you…
@Deon: @star: I think that Grey has achieved in a little more than just rugby. Just recently , I pointed out to Roger that they have produced the most ODI cricket players in SA with KES, second. But unfortunately, time and space prevents me from fully elaborating on the achievements
Deon, on the subject of tennis. If I remember correctly, a certain Mr Kepler Wessels was the U17 SA champion, and could well have chosen a professional tennis career, had he not chosen cricket. I remember him winning the Appletiser shield ? in Stellenbosch ? How is your sheep farming thoug? But what I can do is testify to the sports producing qualities of you product of the vine
@ Deon- I was under the impression that Paul Roos has been considered national champions for several years now. In contrast GW would be considered journeymen. What I think is also important is how it translates after school? When Westville were at the top of their tennis game they produced grand slam winners. Jordan states that Westville have produced more ATP ranked players than any other school. I am not sure how many PRG have produced. Likewise with the swimming that has translated into 4 Olympians, World Champions and World record holders. Even the 2nd tier are Commonwealth medal holders. College previously ( and soon to be back GT
) top hockey/cricket and rugby school have produced numerous athletes who have served the national interests( and others aka Pietersen) well. Then the school can be truly proud. The Boland schools/Affies and Grey have done the same with our rugby.
@BOG: We have an unfair territorial advantage over for instance GCB wrt wine producing. And, as you may recall from your varsity years, wine may cause a lot of sports. However, all schoolboy sports sites are silent on wine producing? Hard to understand? It is a shame that these sites are also silent on the game of croquet. When I was at school one of my co-pupils, Charles Barlow, was world champion if my memory serves me correctly. Tonight I will search all sites on schoolboy underwater hockey, badminton and ring tennis. Since the Eersteriver is virtually on our doorsteps, I also expect some excellent canoeing records. With all the wind in the Western Cape we may have a disadvantage at clay pigeon shooting though. Wonder what the snow skiing results for the Eastern Cape and schools in SA adjacent to the Drakensberg are?
@Deon: Are you not the top wine producing school as well?
While bloggers are discussing tennis at schoolboy level(????), I understand that we are dominating schoolboy tennis at this stage,and have been doing so for quite some time? Is this correct? http://www.saschoolsports.co.za:”Paul Roos proved once again their total dominance of schools tennis in South Africa by winning the 16th annual Invitation Festival held at Kearsney College over the weekend”. Perhaps this will make us feel better after the past few rugby seasons.
@Gungets Tuft: Not sure, I don’t follow it either.
http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/target-shooting-national-level
http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/target-shooting-report-1
http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/top-4-target-shooting-results
@Grasshopper: College kind of rate their shooting at the moment, got a few guys into the Midlands squad. How have they gone against Glenwood this year. Must confess to not really following it, just know we have a super dedicated coach at College and I am lead to believe the facilites are top drawer, fully automated indoor range with aircon and the like. No idea, never seen it. Must make a point to do so.
@Gungets Tuft: I think it’s a ruling at school, lower teams have to play softball due to injury. Watch a proper softball game and you will see how quickly that ball comes, far quicker than Dale Steyn can bowl…target shooting is musketry and Westville won’t care about that as it does not bring in the headlines they are after…..
@star: Never heard of most of those guys, sorry before my time. I played KZN provincial tennis up to grade 9 and decided to concentrate on cricket and rugby instead, was not a great individual sportsman preferred team sports. I was at Glenwood between 1992 and 1996. I don’t remember losing to Westville very often then, with players like Scott Schaefer, Philip Thornhill, Troy Pearsall, Gavin Schorn, Silvan Koterba, Arne Hansen, Bjorn Rencken, Warren Green, Marc Roberts, Michael Pienaar etc. In 1994 we were runners up at the Wayne Ferreira Invitational Challenge. In 1995 the tournament was washed out but we beat Wynberg 14-2. We have co-won the tournament a couple of times too. 5 Springbok tennis players over the years aint bad…
@Grasshopper: Eeisch, I draw the line at softball. I thought that was a mid-morning pastime at Bill Buchanan, … or was that a medical diagnosis in the frail care section at Bog’s home .. no matter. Softball is a nyet, sorry
As for target shooting .. phew, brave to bring that up, the Westville boys are going to work with that ….
@ Grassy- if we had played GW we would have been even higher.
I finished in 1981. We had Deppe, Edmunds, Adams and Bryer. The Ferreira brothers were a bit younger together with Koenig. The Lister James brothers were several years ahead. I think a little more than 3 years my Boet. 
@Gungets Tuft: Totally agree! Glenwood claims to offer about 45 sports which to me makes a pretty allround offering. We may not be the best at the ‘mainstream’ sports but I ask any school to take Glenwood on in targeting shooting, baseball, softball, surfing or tennis and they will have a very tough time of it. Westville have made huge strides too in all sports as they too were just average prior to 2000. The massive injection of money at Westville and acquiring of professional coaches has boosted them to a point of being noticed nationally, well done!
@star: My point is more on the lines that what makes schools great is not their ability to turn out rugby players (or cricketers, hockey players, paddlers with their own private river) but to provide opportunities for all.
So, perhaps in that regard, claiming a precision pilot (College have a cuople of them, not knocking House) is not really a school accolade. What is an accolade though, is that the school has instilled the ethos of dedication to a craft, evidence being the reward. I know that schools have a huge part to play in that, it becomes an internal competition thing. My son has a paddler in his dorm that has SA Colours for white water canoeing, it makes my oke sit up and want to achieve as well. That might be hockey, paddling, lifesaving, whatever – just something that he can hold up as an achievement. He wouldn’t get any recognition for jukskei, but he sure as hell would for surfing (because of it’s ability to pull tjikks, let’s be honest), skydiving, moto-cross.
Star is right to an extent (can’t believe I said that
), some sports do “carry more weight” (you don’t have SA Schools Sport doing a list of SA baseball players..), but I don’t agree that the list of people that have achieved in other sports should be relegated. Any more than should authors, business leaders, Rhodes scholars etc. But, this is a sports blog with a rugby bias (in winter), so let’s confine it to sport for now.
@star: You didn’t play Glenwood or Kearsney at rugby and didn’t play Glenwood at cricket, so those combined rankings are flawed at best. I mean how can you have rankings for cricket, it’s crazy. Every game has different conditions and can depend on a toss. Crazy! Also, no school plays every other school. Westville were good this year at those sports, well done but to claim to be in the top 3 generally we all know is a pile of horse dung….
@star: Boet, what year did you finish? Westville were good at tennis for about 3 years, other than that not much else. I played high level tennis so if you tell me the year I can put some perspective. Eg my very good mate Damian Roberts was coming to Glenwood with me before Kearsney scooped him up with a bursary, his boet Mark came to Glenwood..
@Gungets Tuft: Agreed, so I point out what we do correct so that will make clients think about what other suppliers are not doing correct. I never come out and bash a competitor openly, that is low blow but on blogs like this you can as it does not affect your P&L
@Gungets Tuft: On that point and out of interest, I had a look at Jordy’s profile, $1,083,580 (R10.9 million) career earnings and that is without sponsorships and endorsements. The bloke is 25 years old and earns a ton for doing something so ‘non-mainstream’ like surfing, obviously these minority sports are useless….NOT! http://www.aspworldtour.com/surfers/mens-profiles/jordy-smith/
@Grasshopper: “highlighting your competitors faults is part and parcel of winning the game”
I think with experience you will learn that knowing your competitors faults is the key (you can make the customer think about them without saying anything – in exactly the same way as a rugby coach might point out defensive flaws in the opponent but doesn’t talk about them in the match build-up). I do a lot of technology buying and there is no quicker way out off my supplier list than to start that. It makes the assumption that I am too stupid to figure that out for myself. Even if it’s true, it’s not going to get my business, nobody wants the best of a bad bunch.
@GT- I think you must reward all sports as an indication of the relative importance to the individuals who participate. However it would be naïve to suggest that a small sport will carry the same weight as a truly national sport with major participation by scholars. That is where I think Jordan’s comment about keeping the list low profile comes from. He also quite rightly mentions the tennis players where Grassy seems to think that GW have a monopoly. I was at Westville in 1981 and the Westville 1ST team that year were all SA Schools. Westville dominated for several years after that. I am not saying that GW are not extremely competitive now but nothing to warrant being called a ” tennis school”. The allrounder ranking for hockey/rugby and cricket by SA School sports had the top 3 as Affies/Westville and Grey. However if soccer was added as most probably the biggest national sport then I think there would be daylight
@Grasshopper: That is why the auntie in 204’s daughters is such a sl_t. Their school literally on the doorstep of Pretoria West’s biggest plug and pay. Grassy you may have a thing here. My high school had a bottle store on one corner, that explain my love for Tassies. You genius.
@Tjoppa: Ya Tjoppa Ya!
@Gungets Tuft: Good points Gungets, everyone has different strategies. I work in a cut throat sales environment where pointing out your strength’s and highlighting your competitors faults is part and parcel of winning the game. I agree to think out the box is a good thing, will change focus in future debates…
@Grasshopper: Gungie dont worry these oukies from Glenwood just big mouth and no guts. Ask the Affies boy’s sorry I mean the bastards from Tswane.
@Woltrui: Siestog
Springboks by school, Glenwood in the Top 20
http://www.rugby15.co.za/springbok-by-school/
@Grasshopper: All good, except that you need to challenge him on his statements. I can think of many ways of doing that without:
1. Trying to spot sports that the opposition excel at (like paddling) and put them into the same category as the sports that ou Jordaan thinks are weak. You aren’t helping your cause, you are weakening another cause. Point out that Jordy earns millions a year, while all those Bok hockey players still have to pay to travel to international tournaments. Legitimise the sport, don’t illigitimise others.
2. Trample on the traditions of a school just because you have an issue with a person who says he went to that school. It’s a daft blanket statement that implies that it is the only argument you have. His mother might dress him funny, but that’s not the issue here – his categorisation of sport is silly.
It’s an old debating trick. Never start out with your weakest argument, you will be destroyed on that argument. Bring out your strongest point. Then, if you need to, much later, tell him he is ugly and paddling is for people who can’t tackle … yes??
@meadows: I think we agree on this. If we had to only reward rugby, cricket and hockey players with real recognition then we have a pool of about 30 to reward. Goes against an ethos of balance.
@Grasshopper: Paul Nash held the World record (jointly) for the 100m in 1968.
Quinn may well have held the SA National record.
@Gungets Tuft: I don’t disagree as I’m sure that it takes as much hard work and in some instances probably more skill to become an international Precision Pilot (by way of example) than many other “major” sports.
The use of the word “major” was not meant to be dismissive of other sports – perhaps a better word would have been “mainstream” school sports.
I would distinguish between representing South Africa (and other tier 1 rugby playing countries) at rugby and earning national colours for rugby playing for Botswana, Swaziland, Tanzania, Denmark or Hong Kong.
@Gungets Tuft: The issues Jordaan brings up, he says our internationals don’t mean anything, that is disrespectful. What if we took out all of College’s paddlers from their list, suddenly shrinks. I mean come on the Dusi literally flows through College if they don’t have a decent paddling team they might as well give up. My point to Jordaan is he needs to be a little more respectful of Umbilo High, yes we not as old or not as honoured in the sports world but we will give College a good go everytime we meet. In fact considering the age difference we have played as many games against College as some older schools so would indicate we are a great rival…
@meadows: Sorry, it was Johan Rossouw in 1988 with 10.06. Matthew ran a 10.08 in 2004. Matt was brilliant at school but used to lose to a Glenwood athlete called Attila Dudas regularly. Attila now coaches the Glenwood 2nd team rugby…
@Grasshopper: Sheeesh – what did you think I was going to do, phone ou Radovan and order a hit?
We have been over this greenstones thing before, so the tongue should just stay out of the cheek. You (and one or two other Glenwoodians) haul it out every time you get riled with a College boy, just for the reaction. You are an intelligent chap, deal with the issues that Jordaan brings up, don’t resort to a silly statement you know is going to earn you a literary klap.
@meadows: Didn’t Matthew Quinn from Pinetown hold the National record at some stage?
@meadows: It’s 5 Springboks and 6 other country internationals, maybe more. These are what I know of;
Mauritz Van den Berg – Boks
Roger Sheriff – Boks
Don Walton – Boks
Rodney Gould – Boks
John Allan – Boks & Scotland
Warren Whiteley (Sevens)
Brian Shabangu (Sevens)
Peter Zsitvai (Hungary)
@Gungets Tuft: Mate, don’t threaten me you starting with the wrong guy, it was said tongue in cheek…
@meadows: Personally, I reckon national colours are national colours, it’s a little daft to start deciding which ones are “worthwhile” and which not. We might as well start deciding that only A-symbols for Maths and Science are worthwhile, or Nobel Laureats for sciences only.
It would be nice if the sport is played in at least 5 countries though … so jukskei is probably out …
Looking at the Bulls group practicing for the 2014 Super series I’ve got a sickening feeling in my stomach. It seems as if the Bulls have lost all ambition within a 2 year span.
-Poaching school boys from other Unions with all the costs involved. Kids who have maybe a 3% chance of making it to the Bulls senior team. Not having money to keep senior players who could bring sucsess to the Union(Jaques Potgieter and Jano Vermaak as example). Don’t know if we must laugh or cry??
@Grasshopper: Didn’t know that Glenwood had produced 11 Bok rugby players – I was only aware of Don Walton, Rod Gould and John Allen.
MHS have made a substantial contribution to Polo (the one played on a horse rather than in a speedo) with 21 internationals.
MHS Boks in what I consider major sports are;
Cricket – 16
Hockey – 15
Rugby 2 – (plus 4 others for 6N countries Wales – 1, Scotland 2, Italy 1)
Swimming – 2
Athletics – 3 (including Paul Nash – the last white man to hold the 100m record in 1968)
Canoeing – 10
There are some interesting sports represented including Precision Flying, Gliding, Skydiving, Fencing, shooting, Skiing, and Rally driving.
There are 5 Bok Fishermen, 5 Sailors, 10 tri/du athletes.
Aside from the South African colours earned countries in the region, especially Rhodesia/ Zimbabwe, are well represented in major sports.
Further afield MHS OBs have represented the UK Countries, Holland, Italy, Denmark and Australia,
@Bwana: Glenwood won 1st’s, 2nd’s and U16A, but let’s not even start on that hockey day. It’s not one that Glenwood should take too much pride in.
@Grasshopper: Start with your “greenstones” k#k and you will deal with me properly.
@Rugbyman: Hoeveel geleenthede skep julle vir die Boland seuns wat so agtergeblewe is maar nie rugby speel nie en dalk akademies baie sterk is?..
@jakes: so dis reg as julle in die valke by ander skole poach? Maar niemand buite die valke nie? Soos ek se, ek het geen probleem as kinders skuif vir beter geleenthede nie… dis tog die ouers se besluit… moet darem ook se ek sien nie jansen as n arm skool nie…
ons sal nooit oor dit saamstem so kom ons laat dit daar! Sterkte vir julle seisoen in 2014
@BoishaaiPa: You could throw in Liezl Huber or Liezl Horn into that mix too, her mother Sica used to coach me as a kid..
@BoishaaiPa: Sorry, singles semi-final then. I think Wayne Ferreria got to the quarters and lost to Boris or Andre, can’t remember.
@Grasshopper: Not quite correct with only Saffa to reach a semi at Wimbledon…Bob Hewitt and Frew McMilland won the doubles finals twice and Danie Visser and Pieter Aldrich played in the 1990 doubles finals.
@ Rugbyman- EG Jansen is die nr. 1 rugby skool in die Valke streek..Die spelers wat hulle huisves mag dalk van so ver as Heidelberg en Springs en Kempton park wees, maar is nog steeds skole wat onder die Valke streek val. Geen koshuise om spelers te huisves of groot gelde van hul unies af om spelers te koop of poach of kontrakte aan te bied nie. Hulle moet baie hard werk om plaaslike spelers te kry en te hou..EG Jansen bied ook spelers in die Valke streek die beste geleentheid om na skool provinsiaal te speel agv afrigring en blootstelling wat hul by EG kry. En dan word al die harde werk ongedaan gemaak deur skole met ryker unies en geld.Die basiese grondwerk word gedoen deur die “sterker” skole in die kleiner unies, net om dan deur die “ryker” skole en groter unies “gepoach” te word en wil dan met die louere wegstap.. Dis die basiese prinsiep van die saak, daarom begin skole bohaai opskop soos in die artikel vermeld..
@Bwana: Yep, the one at home which still counts as a triple as we won the rugby that day too and the cricket recently….
Wasn’t Jordaan wearing a green jersey earlier this year? Hopper – My memory seems to recall Glenwood only winning one of the hockey games, so the hockey actually was even over the course of the year.
@Jordaan: Mate, you letting yourself and College down with comments like that, especially the ‘2nd tier’ opposition last para. The College guys I know would never consider any opposition as 2nd tier no matter how much they beat them, they were always gracious in defeat and in victory. Anyway, Glenwood are in the Top 20 for most rugby and cricketing Boks produced, maybe not the top 5 in College’s case but that is pretty good for a school based in a middle income area in Durban with far more competition for kids. I admit Glenwood have never been a powerhouse in any particular sport or period but we certainly have produced some brilliant sportsman and teams over the years that have never given up. I can safely say that no school will ever have a ‘soft’ game against Glenwood. We have produced Rhodes scholarship academics, professors, F1 designers, multi-millionaire businessmen, politicians, international sportsman and genuinely good allround South African me, give us a little respect. I can bet the list of KES, College and any other schools list of internationals include clay pigeon shooting, chess masters, jukskei and others. We have produced the only Saffa to reach a Wimbledon semi-final (Kevin Curran), Greg Nicol (SA’s most prolific hockey goalscorer), Jordy Smith (SA’s best surfer) etc etc. We respect College and are just enjoying a purple patch against them, let us enjoy it. You did for 90 years smashing us every year. I mean we did the triple of College this year, winning the rugby, cricket and hockey….that used to be unheard of. Also the double a few times this decade. I hope losing to a 2nd tier school on Greenstones is not too hard a pill to swallow……even worse for College was losing to Westville by 50 on Griffonstones! I supported College in that loss due to illness but comments like yours makes me change my allegiance to Westville…
@valke: net soos EG aktief is by Hugenote Springs, Heidelberg Volkskool en Jeugland… ek verstaan EG het heelwat versterkings gaan kry vir hulle o/15s van volgende jaar, spesifiek by Hugenote Springs… Ek het geen probleem daarmee nie, maar moenie vingers wys as daar vingers terug wys nie
@jakes: Hi Jakes, I stand to be corrected, as I am not that close to the EG Jansen setup, but it seems that between 5 – 10 of the EG Jansen U/16 team ( 2013 ) were approached by Garstfontein.
At least 5 boys accepted and went to Garstfontein.
I believe at least 3 of those have returned to EG Jansen, with 2 boys still at Garstfontein.
You are correct. They are very active in the Falcons region, mostly at u/16 and grade 11 level.
@Grasshopper: i think thsi is a good thing , its been abused, GW have done this and we have to openly admit that SE has been particularry bad at this
What I have on those Head to Heads in KZN (the total wins story from ou Tarpeys)
Glenwood (1921) Played 166, Won 109, Drawn 19, Lost 38
Hilton (1875) Played 164, Won 111, Drawn 11, Lost 42
DHS (1910) Played 186, Won 116, Drawn 13, Lost 57
House (1901) Played 163, Won 104, Drawn 14, Lost 45
Westville (1987) Played 27, Won 21, Drawn 2, Lost 4
Kearsney (1943) Played 69, Won 57, Drawn 2, Lost 10
@Grasshopper: This list of Glenwood Springboks backs up what I was saying earlier, although it’s long and seems impressive, it’s all really non main stream sports like yachting, lawn bowls, BMX, karate, baseball etc. couples with a handful of springboks for rugby, cricket, athletics, hockey, tennis etc. All schools have tons of SA representatives for non-main stream sports every year. If I was you I wouldn’t go advertising this list – I think people would have expected more from a school like Glenwood to be fair. DHS was always our traditional rival in KZN, up until recent times Glenwood was always 2nd tier opposition.
@Roger: That, on it’s own, is worth the trip to Chunnisbeg in May.
@Tarpeys: Give me some time, will check it out. The numbers that I have are a little out of date but I doubt House have pulled back that many in a short time.
@Roger, it should be an interesting season.
@ Gungets Tuft, You don’t sound too sure. That is what someone said at the school and I remember checking it on the College website and being pleasantly surprised.
@Tarpeys: 12 from 18 would be a good season. 14 from 18 very good and 16 from 18 phenomenal.
I just don’t know what to expect from KES next year – all the noises coming from the school point to a super quick and exciting backline and light forwards (usually the case besides in 2011/12).
I say 13 from 18 with KES avenging their double KZN loss of last year by giving College, Westville and Northwood a snotklap
@Gungets Tuft: This is what I have;
Glenwood vs Maritzburg College (1921)
Played: 165
Won: 41
Lost: 109
Drawn: 14
% Win: 24%
@Tarpeys: Not by my results they haven’t. DHS are still ahead, I think House have 38 (from 133), DHS have 53 (from 169). Glenwood 37 from 162 (I think) – Grassy will know that result.
Numbers might be out by 1 or 2, but not enough to make a difference
@Tarpeys: Yep, now we will see if KES can maintain their winning ratio’s with proper opposition and quite a bit of it. Still don’t think many schools have as tough an ask as Glenwood with 8 games in a month 29th March to 30th of April!!!! Haibo!!!
@Roger: Nope, I’ll let KES claim him like they have Scarra who carried bags all tour..
@Roger, After some disappointing results last year, what do you think will a realistic win loss ratio this year in your opinion?
Glenwood provisional fixtures 2014
1 15/03/2014 Westville H
2 22/03/2014 Michaelhouse H
3 29/03/2014 Hopefully KES A
4 31/03/2014 Hopefully Grey PE A
5 12/04/2014 Voortrekker H
6 17/04/2014 Dale College A
7 19/04/2013 EG Jansen A
8 21/04/2014 Framesby A
9 28/04/2014 Waterkloof A
10 30/04/2013 Outeniqua A
11 10/05/2014 DHS H
12 17/05/2014 George Campbell H
13 24/05/2014 Maritzburg College A
14 31/05/2014 Monument A
15 07/06/2014 Hilton A
16 14/06/2014 Northwood H
17 21/06/2014 Kearnsey H
18 26/07/2014 Grey College H
19 02/08/2014 Affies A
20 09/08/2014 Maritzburg College H
21 16/08/2014 KZN Development H
@Tarpeys: we could be zero from twelve by the time we play St Albans
and as old Vleis will tell you – they are no pushovers either!
@ Roger, just taking a closer look. There are potentially 13 fixtures that you can lose If you’re not at your best. That run of 7 games from the 17th of April to the 24th of May against Westville will make men out of your boys.
@Grasshopper: flawed logic – bigger city more schools to choose from. I am sure Tarpeys will tell you the percentage of JHB boys at House and you can be sure that the figures for Hilton, St Andrews and to a lesser extent Kearsney are similar
@Tarpeys: yep – tough season ahead. 18 games – not too many and just about rightfor schoolboys
@Tarpeys: For the first time in years that KES is playing some decent opposition. Good luck to them…
@Grasshopper: why dont you claim Andrew Mehrtens too – he spent all of 18 months in Durban
@Roger: Agreed, never said Glenwood is near to KES on international reps, we have about 170. College on the other hand has 220 plus which is close to KES if not more, we have had this debate before. Remember KES is in the largest city in SA so should have allround good sportsman based on the population. Maritzburg and Durban are mere dorpies compared to JHB.
Top 8 Sports Internationals for Glenwood
Rugby – 11
Cricket – 6
Hockey – 10
Swimming – 1
Waterpolo – 7
Athletics – 4
Tennis – 5
Soccer – 8
Total: 52
There are more, I just need to get the full list from Glenwood and compile a proper list…
@ grasshopper, I don’t know how many. I know our 2010 victory moved us ahead of DHS. College use to have a list of a history of results vs each school they’ve ever played but they have since taking it off their website.
@ Roger, no one can accuse KES of shying away from proper fixtures. That’s a tough list.
@Tarpeys: OK, so do you know how many?
Glenwood vs Maritzburg College (1921)
Played: 165
Won: 41
Lost: 109
Drawn: 14
% Win: 24%
@Roger: Yep, like your KES list with all sorts of ‘sports’ that are not even sports….
@beet: heh Beet – final KES fixtures for 2014:
22 March – Pta Boys (H)
29 March- 2 April – Grey High Festival (two fixtures as yet unanounced)
12 April – St Johns (H)
17 April – 21 April – KES festival (Rondebosch, Queens, Northwood)
27-30 April – Wildeklawer (Paul Roos and Noord Kaap)
10 May – College (H)
17 May – Affies (H)
24 May – Westville (A)
31 May – St Albans (H)
7 June – Pta Boys (A)
14 June – St Stithians (H)
26 July – Jeppe (A)
2 August – Parktown (A)
6 August – Monnas (A)
I am really interested to see what this charter proposes. I hope it will be well-thought out, and not emotionally driven.
@Grasshopper, Michaelhouse has recorded the most rugby victories against College of any side in KZN in fact I think overall in the country.
narrow that list down to cricket, rugby, soccer and hockey – those are probably the big four
@Rugbyman: I’m disappointed that you use the word “stab”. The main sources are
A: your quotes
B: the newspaper article
The area where I may be off the mark is defining Garsies as a school that has turned its rugby fortunes around with the aid of recruits.
I have emailed you back.
@Jordaan: Mate you letting your alma mater down with comments like that, really not the respect that College usually teaches. Glenwood has been a decent rival to College in all sports for over 100 years, give respect where it’s due. in fact Glenwood probably has a better record vs College in rugby than most KZN schools bar DHS. To even consider Westville in this equation is an insult. College started playing Westville in rugby in 1987 BUT vs Glenwood in 1921……chalk and cheese……
That is excluding the past 3 years, international judges, refs etc…..so not sure what you guys are on about….
SPRINGBOKS / PROTEAS
1921 -1924 W.A. Clarkson Rugby
1934 -1937 C.K. Tarpey Soccer
1935 R.J. Williams Cricket
1937 M.A. van den Burg Rugby
1937 -1938 A.R. Sheriff Rugby
1942 -1952 N.M. Cockburn Tennis
1947 R.H. Nicholson Soccer
1947 -1953 T.R. Dow Soccer
1948 L.A. Markham Cricket
1949 -1957 J.C. Watkins Cricket
1951 P.R. Norris Hockey
1952 R.H. Yelseth Gymnastics
1952 -1960 A.J. Swift Cycling
1953 -1969 D.H.A. Nichol Shooting
1953 -1956 B.M. Woodroffe Tennis
1953 -1961 I.C. Vermaak Tennis
1954 D.J. Poacher Shooting
1954 -1958 M.J. Rufus Soccer
1954 -1956 T.E. Lievesley Surf Lifesaving
1956 J.E. Calenborne Surf Lifesaving
1957 M.J. Speed Soccer
1957 R.C. Moffatt Soccer
1957 -1965 J.L. Quine Shooting
1958 -1960 E.B. Jeffreys Athletics
1961 L.B. Madsen Hockey
1961 N.E. Maurice Motorcycling
1961 -1964 N.G. Yelseth Trampoling
1962 -1967 C Marangos Surf Lifesaving
1962 -1967 A. Lottering Hockey
1963 -1965 K.E. Diepraam Tennis
1964 -1970 D.C. Walton Rugby
1965 -1966 G.B. Bradfield Hockey
1965 -1967 D.H. Bird Shooting
1965 -1974 G. Thomopoulos Surfing
1965 -1968 C.B. McCurrach Yachting
1966 A.G. Nash Ice Hockey
1967 -1968 D. Kuhlmey Surf Lifesaving
1968 -1969 R.L. Gould Rugby
1968 -1981 M.B. Madsen Hockey
1968 -1971 A.J. Sutherland Surf Lifesaving
1969 B.J. Shields Cross Country
1969 -1971 D.W. Swanson Baseball
1971 D. Campbell Waterpolo
1971 -1974 W.D. Nelson Hockey
1972 -1973 B.K. Suddards Golf
1974 D.B. Banks Surf Lifesaving
1975 -1984 D.R. Suddards Golf
1975 -1984 D.W. Engelbrecht Clay Pigeon Shooting
1976 P.E. Brockman Waveski
1976 -1987 P.L. Madsen Hockey
1977 G. Merchant Basketball
1977 -1983 R.E. Thomson Basketball
1977 -1987 T.R. Madsen Hockey
1978 B.A. Peterson Ski Boat Angling
1979 -1986 D.R. La Marque Waterpolo
1980 A.R. Martin Motor Racing
1980 K.M. Curren Tennis
1980 -1995 A.R. Morris Softball
1981 -1985 P.L. Madsen Indoor Hockey
1981 BJ Campbell Surfing
1982 D.J. Fairbank Model Yachting
1982 P.W. Simons Model Yachting
1982 -1994 D.K. Morris Baseball
1982 -2000 G.R. Morris Baseball
1982 -1987 D.J. Schafer Clay Pigeon Shooting
1983 J.M. Rodrigues Basketball
1983 E. Bursik Ski Boat Angling
1983 -1986 J.S. Milligan Bowls
1983 -1985 V. Sterley Freshwater Lifesaving
1985 C. Buck Motorsport
1986 I. Johnson Board Sailing
1986 C.R. Howell Indoor Hockey
1987 S.G. Campbell Surf Lifesaving
1987 G.R. Alessandri Surf Lifesaving
1987 -1992 D.R. McNeill Underwater Hockey
1989 D. de Saunois Baseball
1989 D Morris Baseball
1989 G Morris Baseball
1989 T. Madsen Cricket
1991 -1994 D. Geraghty Surfing
1991 -1992 K. Cawood Swimming
1992 D.J. Cockwell Body Boarding
1992 C.D. Addison Canoeing
1992 G. Planganyi Spear Fishing
1992 -1995 C. Roy Waterpolo
1992 -1995 G. Mottram Waterpolo
1993 F.D. van Staden Athletics
1993 G.L. Cockwell Body Boarding
1993 R.J. Diamond Gymnastics
1993 M.J. Atkinson Kung Fu
1993 -1995 O.C. Mundell Athletics
1993 -1996 J. Allan Rugby
1994 -1997 S. Schaper Action Cricket
1994 -1995 S.D. Jack Cricket
1994 -2000 G.A. Nicol Hockey
1995 -1996 C. Watkins Beach Volleyball
1995 W. du Plessis Soccer
1995 -1996 W. Abery Golf
1996 G.D. Harvey Body Boarding
1997 JP Rumbelow Duathlon
1997 R. Allan Softball
1997 -2001 E. Borresen Archery
1997 L.D. Hadebe Athletics
1997 -2000 J. Rumbelow Duathlon
1997 -1999 S. Morrow Indoor Hockey
1998 -2002 B. Palmer Basketball
1998 T.K. Logie Surfing
1998 D.R. Logie Surfing
1998 G.A. Wallace Touch Rugby
1998 -2007 J.G. Clarke Show Jumping
2000 D.N. Potgieter Badminton
2000 D. Sheppard Soccer
2000 D. de Bruyn Waterpolo
2000 D. Stewart Waterpolo
2001 -2004 M.D. Olivier Softball
2001 E. Burger War Games
2001 – 2003 P.A. Bowen Benchrest Rifle Shooting
2002 G.D. Schultz Waterpolo
2003 G.P. Olivier Softball
2003 -2006 J.M. Smith Surfing
2004 R. van der Avoort Indoor Hockey
2006 B.P. Armitage Baseball
2006 T. Lamont Baseball
2006 J. Smith Surfing
2007 -2010 S. Balwanth Hockey
2007 -2009 T. Morris Gymnastics
2007 S. Balwanth Indoor Hockey
2008 -2010 S. Milligan Bowls
2009 R. Palmboom Surfing
2009 -2010 C. D’Offay Angling
2009 M. Phillips Underwater Hockey
2010 R. Hand Game Fishing
2010 B. Egling Game Fishing
2010 J. Boswarva Game Fishing
@Bonthuis: Greg Nicol, one of South Africa’s best hockey players ever, just to name one. Westville are only about 5th in Durban when it comes to athletics and Glenwood have the best tennis team in the province, anyway you don’t seem to know much about KZN sport anyway…
@Bonthuis: Have to agree with you here. It’s only really in the last 5 – 10 years or so that Glenwood has become a real competitor on the sports filed. Before that they were very average as a sporting school.
Regarding Grasshopper’s comments about Glenwood attracting the top tennis players, again this is only in recent times. College’s biggest competitor in the tennis arena in the 80’s and 90’s came from Westville who produced by far the largest number of ATP ranked players – Royce Deppe, the Ferreira brothers, Rob Koenig (ATP doubles players & commentator), Myles Wakefield etc. and many many others.
Let’s get the story straight here, Glewnood was always very average pre-2000 and you certainly not attracting the top talent due to role models, because for a school as old as yours you definitely lacking in the number of World Class athletes you’ve produced compared to the likes of College, DHS, Hilton and Westville.
@Roger: Have to agree with you here on your example of parents wanting to send their kids to KES because of decades of cricketing success.
The same applies to schools across all provinces, KZN is no different. A prime example of this is DHS, a school which up until the late 90’s had tremendous sporting pull, but, now battles to attract the top talent. Glewnood appears to be attracting a lot of the top rugby talent due to their success in the last 5 years or so with Westville having the top swimming, cricket, athletics and academic programs. Kearsney probably has the edge among the private schools in KZN due to recent success.
As you know Grasshopper sees only green and many of his comments need to be taken with a pinch of salt. Their is no substitute for role models and when you have the likes of Mckenzie, Habana etc it’s tough to argue. Other than Jody Smith who spent most of his time at the beach of course, what Olympic champions or other World Class athletes have Glenwood produced in recent times other than a lot of Craven week rugby players??
@beet: Mr. Beet… u are truly ill informed on the situation in Garsfontein in specific… I sent u an email. Please see if you can make contact with me.
The sunday times article was written more with the Eastern Cape issues… a province where they cant even pay their contracted senior players…
I do think your stab at directly Garsfontein is uncalled for and a question of you not having your facts even nearly straight…
@Roger: I think a charter is a step in the right direction. For one thing it has the potential to bring schools with common rugby desires together. Up until now all stood alone and it was just a question of time before more schools subscribed to the can’t beat em join em philosophy. Things could really spiral out of control in this regard. Now there is opportunity going forward for schools that are labelled as poachers to start looking at those schools that are part of a charter and maybe start thinking along the lines of can’t beat the values they are instilling in their students, so lets rather join them.
I agree that in all situations, no one should ever stand in the way of parents choice. Most parents want what is best for their kids. But how many of these poacher schools are still trying to do what’s in the best interests of the kids they acquire? Their value is measured by their rugby ability and everything gets geared towards success on the field. If a player gets injured and can’t play anymore, I wonder how quickly he’ll be back in the old school he came from.
I will email the article on your SBR login email. Unfortunately I don’t have the proper one with me
@Roger: It does not happen with rugby only, but cricket, swimming , academics and a few other activities. Sorry, I had to say it.@Mike: Let me, for a moment, compare the two Greys. One is in the EC, where the first choice of sport (for “black/of colour”) kids, is rugby. The other, situated in the FS, where the first choice is soccer. And GCB have a substantial number of black learners. And its not as if the school is not focused on development. They have a very active outreach program to the townships where those kids are brought to the school for xtra tuition in subjects like maths and science- also during the holidays. So the school is very conscious of its social responsibilities in the region. But despite all that, the sport of choice is soccer and just the exception chooses rugby. So, what choice does FS have if they are compelled to include a certain number of quota players?
@Roger: And that applies to other schools too, Glenwood gets the cream of the KZN tennis crop as we are successful at that, same too goes for rugby and other sports. Most approaches for rugby are actually from parents looking for a bursary from Glenwood, this then gets seen as poaching when in fact it was not. Success breeds success….
@beet: can you re-produce the article here?
I am not sure a charter will work – as long as schools and parents regard a top rugby programme as a means of attracting top learners and the funds that go with it then its open season. The solution is for all schools to agree that if any school steps out of line so to speak – they are completly ostracised ito fixtures and left out in the cold. It must be enforced as well.
This article does not even begin to discuss the uglier side effecs of all this striving for success. Screaming abusive parents, steroids, win at all costs mentality, fights and ugly on field scenes, injuries and beyond that it amazes me that parents think their kids can make a success of pro rugby?? What’s the conversion rate – like 1 in a 100.
@Grasshopper: not sure I agree – success breeds success. Cricketers in Gauteng want to attend KES because of its success over many decades, the facilities and coaching. There is absolutley no need to poach from other schools – in fact, when a kid joins from another school, nine times out of ten, the parents approached KES. I am pretty sure the same happens at Grey Bloem wrt rugby. That’s not to say there are not other schools in Gauteng who are good at cricket – KES is by no means always top dog. However, it is a school of choice for cricketers by virtue of its success.
@Mike: I don’t think there is a clear cut answer but certainly if you follow a type of common law reasonableness when examining each case, you can tell a poach from a genuine rugby development opportunity.
Within a 10km radius of any top school there is an opportunity to take in and develop an underprivileged child, however if he’s not good at rugby, schools aren’t interested. Typically in “poach” type situations the underlying motive for recruiting a youngster is because he is good at rugby. His background is of secondary concern.
Getting a player from another good rugby school without consulting that school first and offering them the chance to match the offer = a poach.
Getting a player merely to overcome quota restrictions = a poach
There are probably other good examples of poaching as well.
Moving a boy who attends a school that cannot offer him “decent” rugby development or opportunities is probably acceptable but certainly if he can be placed in a better school in the same region so he can be close to his loved ones, that is first prize. It’s when he gets moved a few 100km away that one has to question the true motives.
@jakes: Agreed poaching from local schools should be banned and Glenwood is no saint here either, but others like Hilton are also no saints. Basically with openess, trust and transparency all this cloak and dagger tactics would fall by the way side…
@Roger: Rog, I think all decent schools look at producing all round boys, so rugby is not the be all and end all. What happens if a school like Clifton places all their emphasis on waterpolo and recruit boys for that, is that OK too? Same with swimming and any other sport. We all know every school claims to give the best all round education, but that is smoke and mirrors. The Heads have a strategy or preference for a particular sport or group of sports. In my day Glenwood was an athletics, squash and tennis school, rugby was rubbish. KES is seen to be a cricket and hockey school, Maritzburg College was rugby, cricket and hockey. Schools go through swings and roundabouts in sports depending on the headmaster. But let’s be honest here, rugby is a massive sport in SA and having a successful 1st team attracts athletic kids who are usually good at more than just rugby, waterpolo and other sports. Academics should be what a school boasts about, but then this should not be manipulated too. I have heard of schools getting ‘rid’ of weak academics to maintain their 100% pass rate. Now for me, a better stat would be comparing the results of a year in grade 8 to their matric results and seeing the improvement over 5 years, now that shows the strength of the staff, so the average for grade 8 in 2005 was 63% and by matric in 2009 was 70%…
Garsfontein rugby success are making news for all the wrong reasons. as far as I can read and hear they are poaching players from all over, even from neighboring regions like the Falcons. I speak under correction but I believe on of EG Jansen’s top under 16 players this year are going over to Garsies as well..So I believe it is more than just giving disadvantaged kids opportunities..I strongly believe that it is going to cause bad relations and rivalry among the top schools..
@Grasshopper: I’m working on getting both the charter and the 24 school names
If this charter is drafted, where is the line drawn between giving a boy an opportunity that he would have otherwise not gotten, and poaching. Siya Kolisi was brought out of the township to attend Grey Junior from grade 7 onwards and today he is a springbok. On the other hand, a year and a half ago, a school in Cape Town approached and offered no less than 7 boys from the u16A side of grey PE in 2012 with full bursaries. That is a total slap in the face to a good rugby all boys school like grey PE. Two decided to leave, one eventually stayed and the other has come back. Can you even imagine what that does to an age group if all of them took the offer. What it does is it also makes the boy feel like he has some sort of leverage if he feels like things aren’t going his way at his current school because he has a bursary in his back pocket. In my opinion, players should not transfer from outside of provinces (because of a bursary) unless the boy is currently living I’m bad conditions, or the entire family moves. Even if a charter is drawn up, I see many many loopholes through which provinces and schools will be able to jump through.
quite frankly this is getting way out of hand and I am very glad KES has distanced itself from this unsavoury practise. If a school and parents believe that a winning rugby programme means that the the school itself is “best of breed” then so be it – I am very glad the schools my kids attend do not regard rugby as the be all and end all. Its fun to wind each other up on blogs and it gives old boys something to talk about but honestly – how much does it really mean? Value system is all arse about face
@Grasshopper: Despite my “tongue-in-the- cheek” comment, I fully agree. Too often, we dance around the real problem while the underlying cause, is the requirement of quotas. Make everything transparent and “on the table” and you will probably find more development of the game than now with quotas. If you have impoverished rugby players of all colours, sit down with the unions and draw up a “master plan”, acceptable to all, on how to address the problem.
It seems like originally this recruitment was seen as being charitable and helping out previously disadvantaged kids who happened to be non white, now it’s seen as a bad thing as these schools are getting more representation at provincial level due to quotas. It’s a no win situation for these schools, trying to do a good thing and benefit sports wise but then are told they are poaching. I really do feel sorry for these schools, they damned if the do and damned if they don’t. Quotas need to be removed ASAP!
Beet, do you know who the 24 state schools are?
Ek se maar niks! All the poaching seems to be going on around the Free State, the obvious bastion of honesty and integrity. It explains too, why they produce the best match officials. Vrystaaaaat !!!