Email from a Michaelhouse parent / reader:
Now that the dust has settled on MHS unbeaten season the inevitable debate has begun as to just how good this team were. The truncated season that they play currently is not helpful as they were never really tested, although the 50+ pts win over Helpmekaar, who have gone on to beat Waterkloof does hint at what might have been. I also thought that the performances of players like Wiseman (who I thought very unlucky not to make an SA squad), Sesink- Clee and Pretorius at Craven Week showed that they had players who were capable of holding their own against top opposition.
A group of us were chatting about this over the weekend, in particular about which members of the 2015 side stood out, which lead to the usual discussion about what a MHS “dream team” from the last decade – we used the period 2005 to 2015 so technically 11 years – would look like and this is what we ended up with – a pretty formidable side at schoolboy level. The team was to be based on how they performed at school and was, theoretically, not to be influenced by later achievements. As usual for MHS there are plenty of backs to choose between with some difficult choices but this team would also be able to field a formidable schoolboy pack with that front row, two 2m plus locks, and Rhodes at 1,97m and Moberly, who played lock at CW on the flank.
| # | NAME – ACHIEVEMENTS |
|---|---|
| 1 | Pat Cilliers – 2005 CW captain – played senior rugby for Sharks, Lions & Stormers now in France – Springbok |
| 2 | Matt Wiseman – 2015 CW edged out Chris Stander 2005 CW and Brad Roberts 2014 |
| 3 | Louis Albertse – 2008 CW – played U19-21 at Lions and Vodacom Cup at Bulls – now in France |
| 4 | Cameron Lindsay – 2009 CW captain – U19-21 at WP and senior rugby at EP Kings |
| 5 | Jordan Sesink-Clee – 2015 CW – the luxury of being able to pick two 2m plus locks |
| 6 | Mike Rhodes – 2005 CW – at 1,97m can also play lock – played senior rugby for Sharks, Lions and Stormers |
| 7 | Justin Moberly – 2012 CW captain – chosen at loose forward for his leadership and commitment ahead of CW loosies like Ntsola Setlaba 2007 and Sadiki 2015 |
| 8 | Josh Moon – 2012 CW – WP U19 and SA 7’s |
| 9 | Ross Cronje – 2007 CW and SA Schools B, senior rugby for Sharks and Lions, SA U20 and Bok end of year tour in 2014 |
| 10 | Bader Pretorious – 2015 CW and SA Schools just shades Guy Cronje 2007 CW captain and Rob Anderson 2012 |
| 11 | Ruan Combrinck – 2008 CW -SA U20, senior rugby for Lions |
| 12 | Robert de Bruyn – 2008 CW and SA schools B – played senior rugby for Lions |
| 13 | Pat Howard – 2009-10 CW and SA Schools – SA U20, played senior rugby for Stormers |
| 14 | Mark Richards – 2007 AW (ahead of Bruce Arnott 2012 CW) played senior rugby for Sharks and Lions and SA 7’s |
| 15 | Pat Lambie – 2008 CW captain and SA Schools in 2007 & 2008 – SA U20, senior rugby for Sharks, Springboks |
| 16 | Chris Stander 2005 CW – hooker – OFS U19 |
| 17 | Anele Songca 2015 CW – front row |
| 18 | Ntsola Setlaba – 2007 CW – loose Forward – WP U19 – UCT Varsity Cup captain |
| 19 | Mulalo Sadiki 2015 CW – loose forward |
| 20 | Reef Nakin 2008-9 CW – 9, 10, wing, fullback – Sharks U19 & 21 |
| 21 | Guy Cronje 2007 CW captain – 9 & 10 – played senior rugby for Sharks and Lions |
| 22 | Murray de Bruyn 2007 CW – 10, 12, 13 14, 15 – Lions U19 & 21 |
| 23 | Bruce Arnott 2012 CW – wing |
| 24 | Hilton Mudariki – CW 2010, WP U19 & 21 scrumhalf |
| 25 | Rob Anderson – CW 2012 , flyhalf, UCT Varsity Cup |
| 26 | Victor Foster – CW 2015 – wing and fullback |
| 27 | Michael Mvelase – CW 2012, WP U19 – centre & wing |
| 28 | Awande Khumalo – CW 2008, centre & wing |
| 29 | Xillan van Rooyen – CW 2007, centre |
It would be interesting to see how this side matches up against similar squads from the other schools, especially the KZN ones?
@star: Backwards?
@meadows: If you add Majola who was SA schools in 2011 and is currently in the Sharks set-up at no 6, then that Westville pack is starting to move away from the opposition
@Grasshopper: Westville over the same period – missing a few;
1) Chadwick SA schools’07 2) Hadebe SA b ’08 3) M Collia CW captrain ’06
4) George Earl CW ’05 5) Nick little CW ’07
6,7,8) Brynard Stander CW ’07-’08 ??
9) Tiaan Meyer ’06/ McHardy / Mabaso
10) Duncan Campbell
11) Mkize
12 & 13) K Fisher / T Fisher & K Mavrodaris
14) ?
15) Chris Micklewood SA Schools ’05
College
1) Nick Schonert
2) N Gumede
3) ?
4 & 5) Duncan Havenga & T Zuma
6,7,8) Peter Walker, Leon Stevens & kelvin Adam
9) Ungerer
10) ?
11) Munangi
12) & 13) D Kriel/ Marcel Coetzee / Drikus Hoffman
14) Guma
15) J Kriel
Sure I’ve forgotten a few
@Grasshopper: I’d think that Kearsney would be able to put together a pretty formidable schoolboy side from that period as well. Off the top of my head;
Forwards – Dan & J-L du Preez, Dixon, Schramm, Okafor
Backs – Reece-Edwards/Hall
R du Preez/ T Tedder
J Tedder, Khubeka, Holland
@nation13: I suspect that there are quite a few players who may have missed out on Craven Week that were better than some who made it. I remember a guy like Jean Cordy, the 2005 no8, who also went the AW was outstanding at a schoolboy level, as were Gary Mann the 120kg 2008 loosehead and a guy like Rees Keene at lock who was injured ahead of the final CW trial in ’08 and missed out on the rest of the season and selection for any provincial side.
Greg Jackson-Prop AW 2014,EP Kings u/19. Plays both tight head and loose Head. Should get a look in to that side ahead of Anele Songca
Brad Roberts CW 2014, Sharks u/19 I think takes it from Stander as reserve Hooker
@Cappie: never heard of him?
@Grasshopper: Haha, Oom Siyabonga Tom…
@Cappie: Who is Thom?
@Cappie:
@Grasshopper: Wat van Oom Tom? kry hy nie span nie?
@beet: Difficult to compare because of the limited exposure greats like Barry Richards, Pollock and of course Mike Procter had to test cricket. in Procter and Richards case they probably did enough on the county circuit and in Australia to stand out as greats.
@Grasshopper: It is difficult looking down the list of names not to let subsequent rugby progress affect perceptions of how good players were at school. Your Shaun Malton was outstanding at CW in 2008 making the SA schools side. Wiseman actually reminds me a bit of him. i suspect that his lack of size has hindered his development after U19 and U21 which shouldn’t detract from how good he was at school. Conversely, Kyle Cooper, playing at loose forward wasn’t deemed good enough to make CW in ’07 with Brynard Stander, Marks, Easthorpe and Setlaba preferred. Glenwood’s Dean Muir was the CW hooker that year. Arguably, Cooper has performed the best out of that group with only Stander, of the rest, also playing senior pro rugby.
While SA selection after CW is clearly a measure of talent at this level it also needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. By way of example were some of the wings selected to SA squads in 2008 really better than Ruan Combrinck? Tythan Adams, Abednego Mamushi, Richmond Collins, Katlego Magakwa,, Vogan Lourens and Sburu Sithole. with the exception of Queen’s Sithole I think not.
It’s interesting to see where sporting greats fit into the history of the sport’s ranking order.
This morning on the radio I heard that golfer Jordan Spieth might just be the greatest putter of all-times.
Many years ago at a time when Australia had a test team that could only be beaten in the last team after they’d won the series, there was a write up on the Australian Best of all times XI and only 2 of that current team made the team – Shane Waugh and Glen McGrath. Sadly Clive Rice passed away. I wonder if he would have made the SA best of all times XI – perhaps prior to Jacques Kallis’ arrival on the scene Rice was the best SA all-rounder ahead of Brian McMillan but I don’t know enough about cricket to be sure.
I also hear of the Pantheon of boxing greats but never actually seen the rank order. I assume Ali or Tyson is no.1???
Anrich Arlow, Storm Pearton, Dominic Momberg, Nanyak Dala are others that come to mind..
@meadows: Glenwood side probably not as strong on paper but would give the House side a good go. I do know House has been Glenwood’s banana skin for quite sometime now…
Off my head for Glenwood, based on performance at school;
1) John Roy Jenkinson & Marne Coetzee
2) Shaun Malton & Jacques Taylor
3) Kenny Van Niekerk & Neil Oelofse
4) Wade Elliott & Fred Schnetler
5) Brendon Groenewald & Ferdie Horn
6) Franna Kleynheins & Kyle Cooper
7) Shaun Adendorff & Meyrick Walker
8) Warren Whiteley & Jaco Coetzee
9) Matt Torrance & Zee Mkhabela
10) Fred Zeilanga & Warren Potgieter
11) Mukendi
12) Brian Shabangu (not sure if he was before 2005) OR Marwana
13) Dean Moolman
14) Corne Vermaak
15) Morne Joubert
@Grasshopper: I would think that Glenwood would be able to name a side of CW players quite easily given the numbers that they have had go to CW each year since around 2008.
Current Lions captain Warren Whiteley was also in the 2005 CW side with Rhodes and Cilliers where he played on the side of the scrum. Hilton’s Roddy Grant (now in Scotland) played at 8 with Hilton supplying the half back pair as well. Westville’s Mickelwood was the only KZN player picked for SA schools that year.
A very strong side, but one might think Glenwood, Westville, Kearsney and College could provide similar strength teams over those years. However, for a small school (in no’s) this is a massive achievement. Well done House
A very good side at schoolboy level. It is difficult to not let subsequent developments not cloud thinking. Often, players don’t progress because of factors like injury and prioritisation of studies etc.
On the list above;
I thought that both Cilliers and Rhodes were unlucky not be be selected for higher honours at the 2005 CW. They had good tournaments in a Craven Week in which the KZN side beat both WP and the Bulls. Rhodes was my man of the match in the 30-24 win over the Bulls. Cameron Lindsay also had a good CW in 2009 and, much like Sesink-Clee this year, must have figured in the selectors deliberations.
Ross Cronje missed out to Rudi Paige as the 1st choice scrummie in 2007 but the roles were reversed at the U20 WC a two years later when Cronje wore the starting jersey.
I’ve been very impressed by Pretorius in what I’ve seen of him and his selection for the SA squad is well deserved. That said, Guy Cronje was also outstanding at school, which is probably why he was given the CW captaincy that year. His partnership with his twin brother at 9 & 10 was special and if this side were to actually play I would probably factor that in.
It would also be a squad full of leaders with 5 CW captains (Cilliers, Lindsay, Moberly, Cronje and Lambie, 2 further MHS 1st XV captains in Setlaba and Pretorius and someone like Rob de Bruyn who was U17 at CW and went on to captain the Lions at u19, U21 and Vodacom cup levels.
The backline, bar the two wings, were all selected for SA squads at their respective CW. Combrinck was overlooked but was picked for SA U20 two years later and Mark Richards, in addition to playing senior rugby in the 15 man game is an SA 7’s Bok.