Referees decisions are coming in for more and more verbal sometimes abuse from loudmouth school officials on the sidelines. Your comments on a negative aspect of schoolboy rugby which gradually seems like it is becoming worse and may soon get out of hand.
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@Bush: Nope – not him.
http://laws.worldrugby.org/guidelines
Some law clarifications / guidelines from World Rugby – particularly on Foul Play issues.
@umbiloburger: He gallops like he’s just escaped. Cannae imagine he’s had too many moments of quiet contemplation either … but that’s no slur on his character, too many of us way underdose on the medication …
@BoishaaiPa: Wrong way around. It’s the younger one who is the gnome. He is a thoroughly good lightly and is an outstanding coach. Just exuberance of youth.
@Gungets Tuft: I know that gnome and his father..he comes from Boland Landbou!..He is doing a teaching degree via Glenwood’s academy..His younger brother is with GW’s u/14’s and is also doing the teaching thing at GW..played for BL 1st team scrummie in 2011…
A very good friend of mine was reffing an under 11 Primary Schools game recently. A parent on the stands was having a full go at him for just about every call he made. He asked the coach of the visiting team to go and calm the parent down, but the coach was just as poorly behaved and did nothing. a few minutes later he had his arm up for advantage to the visiting team and was allowing play to go on, yobbo parent has another dip at him. so he blows his whistle and turns to the stands and loudly says “you had the penalty, but because of chirping from the stands, penalty reversed” surprise surprise… the parent concerned shut up from then on!!!!
This has been going on for years at all age groups. I have a vivid recollection of a College coach literally screaming instructions at a young College schoolboy ref trying to run an U14A game years ago at MHS. The young ref was doing apretty good job until the individual concerned got involved and he began to be bullied into making calls that were probably not that good. Eventually the “coach” was silenced by a parent who wondered over and told him that if he did not shut up immediately he would find it difficult to say anything at all for the foreseeable future. Knowing the parent concerned the coach wisely decided to comply – an action welcomed by most spectators in the vicinity notwithstanding school affiliation.
@Redblack White: Is he reffing again this weekend?
@Redblack White: Your son plays in the College U16A cricket side, spinner.
@Bush: Nope. Not the 15a game. Would be pretty bold of the society to give a first timer such an important game
@Gungets Tuft: by the way I agree with you 100% on giving the captain the role of decision making on the field.
@Gungets Tuft: That’s genuinely histerical
he isn’t the physio, he’s helps the 1st XV on match days. The physio is a quiet and very professional individual.
@Gungets Tuft: Whahaha,he is like a Gnome, after KERF they were at Wildeklawer and he was going just as mad.
@umbiloburger: Boet – the last time I watched Glenwood play the “pysio” was why I coined the Garden Gnome phrase. He’s screaming “holding” before the tackle is even made. And he’s also the oke that I saw almost beat the intercept try scorer to the tryline. It was KERF last year, so perhaps he’s reformed.
I’m still of the opinion that there’s no need for the physio or medical representative on the sideline. As for coaches, I heard a ref talking about a match he reffed, GCB I believe, when the ref called the coaches across to join the captain for a pre-match briefing. The coach declined, said that his captain was in charge of the team on the field and all instructions could be addressed to him. I think that’s brilliant for many reasons, but the main one being that schoolboy rugby is not the goal in itself, but growing young men is, and what better way to impart leadership than putting the boy in charge and showing trust.
@GreenBlooded: Why was it you?
@Bush:
The guy who reffed U15A was by no means a schoolboy or a first timer……
@Redblack White: Then it was your son that received a mouth full. What coaches and teachers need to understand is that your son is not a school boy, he is an official on the day. They can’t talk and treat him as if he’s a school boy. Well done to him, he reffed his first game very well. It was the U15A game Did he go for a beer with all the refs afterwards
Reffing must have some perks.
@the professor:
In theory, you are correct.
@GreenBlooded: No matter who the coach is, Andy Keast, Graham Henry, or some local 1st team coach, if the coach is meant to be confined to the technical area, as a directive, why would a referee NOT tell Andy Keast etc? Surely it’s all about taking control of the situation?
@the professor:
Again – that’s my personal opinion. As long as the coach behaves in an orderly fashion and doesn’t run up and down spoiling the experience for everyone then let him sit where he likes. It’s nice to have though – since a ‘runner’ can always be sent there. Although, try telling Andy Keast to go to his technical area and see how that goes for you…….
@Rugger fan: Ya – I was acting on orders on that occasion. I don’t mind them too much – I think it’s great that schools have traditions like waterboys for 1st XV players. Does more good than harm IMHO. The only 3 things I ask of the water carriers is not to come on during a penalty kick, to be gone by the time the match resumes and to wear something that doesn’t resemble the players kit which could make managing subs a bit difficult.
@GreenBlooded: So why insist on a technical area at all then? That directive came from the Referees Union in about 2006/7 already.
@umbiloburger: That’s rich…….
@Rugger fan: Yup – agree about the waterboys.
I know this is going to sound like one of those: Back in the days…. BUT , when I played the game as a laaitie, we got water at halftime, in a bucket, two if you were lucky, with a few cups if you played at House – and a tray of orange quarters – thats it – finish and klaar!!!
@QC86: Thanks – I think it does help. Even if it is just a reminder to the poor fellow that there are some level heads out there. Well done and keep it up – we need more of you out there!
@Redblack White: Awesome on your son. Well done young man – and long may you enjoy it and have awesome memories and games ahead.
On a different note – i’m also against these hundreds of waterboys that run on. It may be a privilege to play in the 1st XV – but you dont need a water boy, personal Social Media manager; photographer; hair stylist; boot cleaner and one just for luck to run on. And some of these smaller guys are milling around while kicks are being taken etc. GreenBlooded: chased a few off a while back saying 4 guys max with water – the rest – off the field. Good call.
@Redblack White: well done to the young man,very brave now days.I go out of my way to thank the reff when i see him after the game,don’t know if it helps him but makes me happy just to show abit of gratitude.
As a coach I prefer to sit behind the goal posts.
What irritates and amazes me are the physios of schoolboy teams barking orders, berating players and complaining about referee decisions.
The guy from Kempton was the worst.
@upcountry: Well said Meneer!
I agree that all forms of “team assistance” should be confined to technical areas. No medic is needed that close to the play anyway – only when a man goes down – and this is just as easily done from a technical area.
If you have to do the side-line thing, I am more in favour of the Rassie Erasmus’ technique – green and red lights on top of the stadium roof – perfect distance from the play!
My son recently took to reffing and had the privilege of reffing his first game, one of the College vs House games, on Saturday. The poor bugger hardly slept the night before and was a bundle of nerves – his biggest worry – chirps from the sideline!!
Luckily I remembered a lesson my old man taught me as a laaitie – I could not understand how my favorite boxer at the time, Pierre Fourie, lost on points against Victor Galindez. Words of wisdom from the old man: “you must watch all the punches boy, not just Fourie’s” Rugby is the same – watch all the aspects of the game – and blow it as you see it. The chirper on the side is only watching his team and will only see the opposition infringements (bar the obvious ones of course – same as a knock out)
I missed his first game on purpose to take some pressure off – I will be there for the next one which is on Saturday.
Hopefully more people can begin to understand that the ref has a thankless job to start with – so let him just get on with it and as the guy closest to the game, trust that he is doing the best job he can.
@upcountry: 100%.
And even the medical people can sit in the technical area. Being (max) 100m from the site of the incident is not going to make a difference to the care they provide – anything more than magic ice is going to need the trained medic from the medical station anyway.
I’ve seen these garden gnomes move – one springs to mind that looked like an Ethiopian Usain Bolt when the mood took him, he’ll get to the incident soon enough.
Although, having said that, I reckon some of the physio’s should be allowed to stalk. The Northwood one and the one at College spring to mind …
@upcountry: Well said boet,agree 100%
A dutchmens perspective from the forgotten region on this topic :
I appreciate that times change and the way the game is played have changed but my logic still dictates that a coach and his staff coach the team for one week before the game, then on matchday at warmup and untill kick-off. Then during halftime they can praise ,give advice, or rant and rave and then after the final whistle they can appear again.
The 70 minutes playing time should belong to the three officials and the thirty players on the field and no one else. The medical people must be medics only.
Why??? Because to my mind:
1) Your captain need to be a captain of the whole team , reading the game and making changes to the gameplan as the game changes. Not a follower of barked orders and secret medical instructions.
2) Your players need to learn to read the other team, work out their strenghts and weaknesses and through their captain play the game accordingly, and not stick to a pre-planned gameplan regardless. Then they will learn to talk/listen to their captain on the field only and not to the million pieces of advice/orders shouted from everywhere.
Schoolboyrugby should be a breeding ground where intelligent rugby players are trained and identified but it looks to me that everything is slowly moving towards american gridiron where the coach are more important than the players.
Quick question – what does Boksmart say about the playing enclosure? From my understanding anyone within the playing enclosure should have done Boksmart and can be checked. In all my years of photography only one person has ever checked it and that was for Academy Week.
I have also witnessed referees warning medics and others on the side line to keep their comments to supporting the game, not interfering with the game. In fact, one medic was asked to be removed from the playing enclosure due to the comments that were made to the ref and both teams.
When society AR’s are not available, I have also noticed coaches stepping in to do that function while also telling the teams which calls to use in the lineouts
@McCulleys Workshop: Eish – I feel for you… Dark glasses for the glare – (it’s the refs contribution in case of laodshedding and no flood lights being available) – added to the wonderful soothing background music layed on at Goldstones.
The only bonus was that access to the Bowls Club was restricted on Saturday – so you can’t blame the amber liquid refreshments! (We trust that this Saturday will be different).
I’ve seen assistant coaches (those running up & down the field) who actually swear & chirp at opposition players to either get them off their game or cause them to retaliate to an opposing player in anger resulting in a YC etc…..pathetic!
Having watched a lot of u14A and u15A games this year , there definitely is a problem at these levels with coaches running the side and manipulating the refs ….
The school north of Durban was the worst closely followed by our mates just west of Durban ….
It seems to get better from u16 in my experience ….
@GreenBlooded: I had Polaroid lenses and it amplified the problem, I left with a headache from the glare!
I guess coaching staff (in whatever guise including nurses outfit) communicating with the players is one thing, but questioning the decisions or reprimanding any of the officials shouldn’t be allowed. If the boys are expected to show respect with regard to the officials decisions, surely the same should apply to the coaching staff.
@the professor:
I think referee’s have enough on their plate already. Can’t the coaches just obey the rules? They are grown adults after all.
Personally – I don’t mind where the coach chooses to sit as long as he stays in one place and doesn’t patrol up and down the touchline shouting and screaming. Some coaches prefer the halfway line, others prefer behind the dead ball line. It’s a personal thing.
@Bush: Some years ago, there was a directive sent out to schools that they should provide suitable technical areas for coaches to SIT within! I still see coaches standing on the goal line barking orders out! I would think that it is the duty of the match official(referee) to insist that hat the errant coach goes back to the technical area provided. How often do we see coaches standing on the goal line, and when their team concedes a try, in he goes to impart instructions to his team? Referees need to take control over this before the game starts or even during the course of a game.
@Pedantic:
The KZNRU Regulations for club rugby:
28. CLUB MATCHES PLAYED AT CLUB GROUNDS
28.1 Clubs are asked to take cognisance of the following requirements pertaining to decentralised venues, and to note that these will be strictly monitored throughout the season by the respective Sub-Unions.
28.1.1 Adequate spectator control should reside in the hands of a Club official and a minimum 3 metre corridor around the playing areas should be maintained at all times during matches. If this corridor is not clearly demarcated and maintained, the referee shall be entitled to suspend play until satisfied that the corridor is demarcated and maintained.
28.1.2 Demarcation of two ‘technical’ areas (approx. 6m x 2m) three meters from the touchline and near the halfway. This clearly marked or cordoned off area is to be used by the respective reserves and team officials. Only with the permission of the Referee may team officials leave this area. Reserves may leave the area for warm up purposes or when about to go on as a replacement.
@Pedantic:
The lawbook says precious little about coaches and medics. The only mention they get in the context of this discussion is as follows:
6.A.4 THE DUTIES OF THE REFEREE IN THE PLAYING ENCLOSURE
.
.
.
(f) The referee gives permission to the team doctors or medically trained persons or their assistants to enter the playing area, as and when permitted by the Law.
(g) The referee gives permission to each of the coaches to enter the playing area at half-time to attend to their teams during the interval.
Note that the definition of “Playing area” is the area bound by the touchlines and deadball lines. There is a separate definition of the ‘playing enclosure’ which is the playing area + a 5m margin around it (not always practical at schools – we are lucky to get 2m). So by the lawbook – there is no restriction on anyone being on the touchline it would seem.
Certainly there is no mention of technical areas or where the coach must sit in the lawbook. I think these aspects are all covered by the by-laws of the various unions which I must admit I have never seen.
From a personal point of view, if the ‘medic’ is in fact a trained medical person then I guess he/she does add some value on the sideline. Where it becomes a problem for me is when they start interfering with the officials and becoming abusive.
The other point which needs to be stressed is the coaches belief that he has access to the referee at halftime. We are instructed not to communicate with coaches or anybody else at halftime – this is our time to catch a breather, have something to drink and relax. The last thing we want to see is a different interpretation of a certain aspect after the referee has received a dressing down at half time and the impression that would create.
@GreenBlooded: What does the lawbook say about coaches communicating with players on the field? Is there anything that covers this ?
I agree that these guys should not communicate with officials at all unless requesting permission to go on the field, make subs etc. but I think there is value to be found in communication channels to the players via these medics – I would much rather watch a game where communication is effective and inconspicuous than having a coach barking orders from the technical area all game.
@umbiloburger: But that never happens, those FBI agents running up and down the side of the field are the worse.
@McCulleys Workshop:
Hey – be nice about our kit. If it bothers you – wear darker sunglasses.
@Bush:
Yup – he’s been identified as a future star. With Midland’s track record of producing world class referees, who knows where he will end up.
@McCulleys Workshop: Haha, the only ref that would have loved his outfit was that Grade 10 boy. Flip he reffed very well on Saturday. Was lovely to see.
@Bush: I think there is a more important and urgent topic, the Refs Wardrobe. Refs should not be allowed out in public in the kind of fancy dress kit they had on, on Saturday. It’s disturbing for the boys and parents alike.
@Bush: This is a topic that needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. Perhaps a solution is to only allow qualified medical personal to run the touch line (physics or bio’s). Even if they have an earpiece and can talk to the coach. They aren’t going to scream the proverbial “holding” and carry on like idiots.
As far as the technical areas, they are for the team management and reserves and that excludes the coach. He is meant to be in the stands
@the professor: Morning, saw the MHS assistance go over and hammer the touch judge about something only he saw. Then the College assistance when College had a penalty and the kid wanted to play the game as he saw it, he ran onto the field with the kicking tee and virtually kicked for poles himself. Have noticed at other levels coaches walking onto the field screaming and shouting at the refs. No it hasn’t only been at Goldstones. There is a code of conduct printed in the programme for spectators, coaches tend to forget that they are spectators.
@the professor: It’s definitely something on the increase and not just happen at one or two schools in KZN either. I reckon if someone wants to be a sideline patrolling school official on match day, he must forfeit his right to engage with the ref or assistant refs unless spoken to first period. Quite a few schools need to have a good hard look at the conduct of their sideline officials and the new culture they are establishing.
On a positive note, I’m yet to witness a lady medic tell any of the refs how they should be officiating.
@GreenBlooded: I hope the referee’s society can do something about this behaviour. I was thinking in a kind of extremely twist who’s the adult and who’s the kid perhaps the captain/team on the field should be held accountable for the poor disciple of the school official on the sidelines, with the options to award penalties against or even a yellow and red card to the captain for the uncontrolled verbal outburst/s of a sideline official depending on the severity of what was said or continuous chirping. A bit extreme I know but really I would love to hear the headmasters takes on this sort of behaviour.
@Bush:
Totally agree. The touchline should be the preserve of the AR and the AR ONLY!! Coaches belong in the technical enclosure although some say they belong in the stands. Over the past few years, there has been a sinister move for each team to deploy ‘medics’ on the touchlines to tend to injured players. Whilst this at face value seems reasonable, what happens in practice is that they are ‘mic’ed up’ to the coaching staff who use them to relay coaching info to the team on the field and in some cases to interfere with the match officials. It’s not on at all and I for one would like to see it stopped. As a match official, my attitude to ‘medics’ who interfere with match officials is: “If you are on the touchline as a medic – then be a medic and ONLY a medic. If you are here to advise me on how to officiate the game – then sit in the stands with the other critics”.
Hi Beet, I wanted to email this but I think it would be good to discuss openly. The interference of coaches and the assistance on the side of the field should be banned